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#16 GandalfFishcake

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 01:02 PM

QUOTE (gav_davies @ Apr 29 2004, 02:43 PM)
Some strange voting going on today with Neddy as well.  Just had 6/10 for my too latest pics with no comments:

But this is the problem at the moment - those photos should be a 6 or 7 - i.e. aboove average, better than good, but not earth shattering. Don;t get me wrong, I like those shots, and would happily have them in my portfolio, but they are "only" technically competent bug macros. To get more than that there should be something special. The rating system seems to have skewed such that 6 = poor, 7 = average, 8 = competent, 9 = quite good and 10 = good. This leaves no room for photos such as

droplet(See, I do like your pictures!)

or
http://www.photograp...o.php?photo=206

The risk with having comments only is that it turns into betterphoto.com, whereby a picture of the stars and stripes gets a million comments and a conventional "good" photo gets none.

#17 Neddy

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 01:28 PM

I find it strange that rating a picture as good gets such an attack. As I have said I have got drawn into giving better scores that I would like because all of the scores seem to be too high and give no room for differentiation.

I think it would be a shame to remove the scoring, but it would be an idea to ask people to split the score into points for composition, lighting or w.h.y.

A few weeks ago marks of 1-3 were being handed out with no comment other than "I dont like this".

Of course beauty will still be in the eye of the beholder and I will go away and search for some pictures I like.

But I do resolve to withhold a mark of 10 for true genius, and in return I ask that just because its a picture of your favourite animal, just slightly off focus and out of frame, the rest of you refrain from giving it top marks.

And I have just had a quick check and I note that some judges also do not publish their own pictures and are very selective about who they mark very highly.

#18 nynavey

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 01:30 PM

This is fast turning into an issue with all contests and ratings systems. Kids and puppies win so much, or as you say, after 9/11, anything red, white, and blue wins (at least in the USA). What can you do.

I much prefer the critique to the rating, as it's at least helpful. I've gave up on the rating system as any example of quality soon after finding this site. I agree with your comments about the overall numbering scale being moved upward, leaving little room for the truly spectacular photos. But that is what happens. I'm not sure how to remedy it. I, too, may have been sucked into rating photos slightly higher than perhaps they deserve because it's a travesty that some less-deserving photos have been 'winners'. I fight that urge, as it's not condusive to improving the work.

With no guidelines to rating (and even then, rules are open to interpretation), I don't see any solution.
Nynavae

#19 tootsie

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 01:31 PM

Well I finally made it here, took awhile to figure it out.I think Mark is on the right track, have thought about it myself.Drop the ratings,I do not care about ratings, would much prefer constructive criticism.Since I am trying to learn it would be much more helpful than this silly nonsense going on with people like neddy who leave scores without any suggestion as to how one can improve ones photo. Are numbers really important anyway? I assume we are all here because we like taking photographs and would appreciate input from others who are doing the same.

#20 nynavey

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 01:34 PM

Neddy, those with the incredibly low scoring of photos that have the sharpness and the clarity, and the subject matter (if you will)...make us question the rating and the person doing it when they do NOT have their own gallery. Especially when you notice they joined the very day the photo they gave a 1 or 2 to was posted, and that they logged in immediately after another member who gave a low rating with no explanation. It brings suspicion.

You do not need to go away just because we do not understand your rating system. Show us what you consider good. Explain more, and help us to see it your way. That's all I'm asking. Nobody has time for revenge-rating, and we have tip-toed around that issue for some time.
Nynavae

#21 Neddy

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 01:57 PM

I like a lot of pictures, but here are a couple using pretty primitive equipment that may achieve 9s or even 10s!

Ansel Adams: Clearing Winter Storm (c. 1937)
Bill Brandt: Portrait of a Young Girl 1955
and his Portrait of Magritte (cant find it on Web)

#22 Kurt

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 02:10 PM

I don't think you will get many comments if you remove the scoring. Its interesting to see who gets voted image of the week, even if we don't agree.

I know my piccies are not everyone's favourites, and I don't mind at all, except when i get a mark of 3 with no reason! and I like it when I do strike a chord with someone.

I have found it impossible to mark any this week with all the really high scores, although I don't disagree with the rating on my own.

Neddy do you like Hopper? I think Bill Brandt is the photographer version of him.

I've started a new topic for favourite photographers in this forum. Tell us who they are.

#23 Yakographer

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 07:09 PM

It is very odd to have a competition in which the most of the current judges are current entrants as well; I don't see how that could ever work out on a public basis.

Maybe it makes sense for us entrants to be able to offer comments but no Ratings, and the Photo of the Week would be judged by a fixed panel of judges.

#24 etfon911

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 08:16 PM

I'm not so sure that the rating system does not have a real value. I, for one, think very hard before rating a photo. The really good ones are an almost instantaneous reaction. You respond to them immediately (WOW). The middling photos are harder, and often where I spend more time thinking about what I like or don't like and trying to make an appropriate comment about what I see or don't see. Unfortunately, I don't usually rate the photos that I think are not strong because (1) I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings by being TOO critical, or (2) it just doesn't move me to action. The ratings and comments, however, are what encouraged me to jump into this mix in the first place. There obviously are some very good photographers here who make very good comments. And there are supporters of not so perfect photographers who really are trying to get better. I don't think the average out makes any difference, because they're already averaged out on the thumbnail page. We also could comment that we're giving a higher score to raise an average that's been unfairly slammed, like Gary55 was in "Liftoff". I've seen that happen more than once, to the extent that the photo ended up back at the original rating level it started out at (if it deserved it).

#25 Yakographer

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Posted 30 April 2004 - 08:30 PM

From what I've read here, it appears some people like the ratings option, others like the comments, some appreciate that it's a competition.

[Again, it really is impractical to have members whom act as both judges and participants in the same competition.]

How difficult would it be to have the ratings and comments the same as ever, and keep it as a competition with one unique winner chosen by an uninvolved party? It could be a pro, Mark, the ten-year-old child of a PhotographyBlog associate, or a photography instructor at any school.

A pro will refuse the assignment, Mark has other things to do, and the child will vote for the puppies too often.

Perhaps Mark could enlist the services of a photography instructor to be our weekly photography judge. If so, we can still comment like crazy, rate with reckless abandon, and still have a weekly winner without emotions of any kind affecting the choosing.

#26 drilan

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 12:31 AM

It is about time... je suis d'accord avec vous tous . Nous espérons une critique bonne ou mauvaise de nos photos et non seulement une appréciation personnelle qui dit j'aime ou j'aime pas ou je ne sais quoi dire suivie d'un 4. Mais faudrait être un peu sévère et ne pas oublier qu'un 5 veut quand même dire: bon

#27 Yakographer

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 03:55 AM

okay, drilan. Last time. Now you're on your own.

drilans comment courtesy of
http://www.freetranslation.com
provided by Gary55 one last time since well over 90% of us write English here at this blog...

He/she says

'I agree with you all. We hope a good or bad critic of our photos and not only a personal assessment that says I like or I like not or I do not know what to say follow by a 4. But would be necessary to be a little harsh and not to forget that a 5 wants nonetheless to say: good"

#28 etfon911

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 04:56 AM

You know, I think Gary got it just right. I have never given a 5 because it did not seem to be the trend on the site - and I did pick up on that pretty fast by watching what was happening. I feel now that there are only four ratings that I would give, a 7, 8, 9 or VERY rarely a 10. There are a lot of fives and sixes on the site though and there have been times when I wanted to give a photo that rating, but didn't know how it would be taken. Where EGO is involved, it gets touchy. This brings up the fact that most here simply will not rate at all if it's below a 7. There's also the mix of professionals (I assume), amateurs, and day trippers. Do you rate the occasional photographer the same as the professional? Ideally, yes, but I've seen a couple of photographers continually post on this site, despite never receiving a rating and comment, and I feel that they are trying to do better. So occasionally, I'll post a comment and rating that others may not agree with. Academic instructors do the same thing from time to time when they see a degree of commitment or work.

#29 drilan

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 05:10 PM

You know etfon911, Gary55 just translate my reply, a thing that he is not forced to do , but thanks for those who can't read french cool.gif

#30 nynavey

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Posted 02 May 2004 - 11:23 PM

Perhaps a rating key would be helpful?

Something to describe what a 1 is...poor everything, a 5...good, and a 10...sheer prefection.
Nynavae



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