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Drive By Voting


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#31 Yakographer

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Posted 03 May 2004 - 04:38 PM

Some competitions have several parameters, such as originality, technical, composition, and so on -- all separated out. That would be too complicated to engineer, I know, but I would like to see a key, too. Something simple, yet detailed.

#32 panchals

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Posted 03 May 2004 - 07:48 PM

I agree with Neddy, his rating system is spot on. 5 average and 10 perfect (of photos worth showing anyone - lets face it I have some 9,000+ images in 1-5 range on my harddisk and DVDs).
I would hope people submitting to POTW think the photo they have just submitted is the very best of their work (that week), so will have done some heavy filtering anyway. If they have other work they can submit it under the other categories.
This would suggest the average for POTW should be higher than average so a 6-9 range would be the expected voting range. A few review groups require comments to be given if you want to rate an image outside the 6-8 range.

Personally I tend not to vote on photos I think are less than a 5 - because to get less than that I am really looking at a shapshot, which has at less one major defect (subject blurred, no subject, etc), and if people want to put that up for review without having done a review of the basics themselves...
People have put out undeservingly low marks without comments, and I think any mark outside -/+2 of the average should be dropped if it has no comment with it.

Where people have made an effort to capture a moment, I always try to put what could have made it into a 9.

Please note on the above I don't get a chance each week to look at all the photos, or provide as many reviews as I would like.

I think not enabling the people who submit to POTW to comment only, would be the way to go.

#33 gav_davies

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Posted 06 May 2004 - 02:40 PM

Gandalf
QUOTE
But this is the problem at the moment - those photos should be a 6 or 7 - i.e. aboove average, better than good, but not earth shattering. Don;t get me wrong, I like those shots, and would happily have them in my portfolio, but they are "only" technically competent bug macros. To get more than that there should be something special.

My problem wasn't with only getting a 6 for my photos, it was the fact that I had two scores of 6 by the same person who never commented on how I could improve on it. Like a lot of people seem to be saying (and I agree) - we come on here to get constructive feedback on how to improve.

I tend to give my ratings based on all other pictures I have seen on other sites. If I have seen better ones of the same subject matter I will mark down a little bit.

Personally I have become a bit sick of voting now (due to people questioning me giving a mark of 7 even though I have given a reason for it, and they go and give it a 9 and say nothing is wrong with it).

I agree that maybe there should be a panel of judges or maybe just leave it down to the opinion of the owner of the site - Mark. From looking at his photos, I would certainly respect his vote/opinion on what he thinks is a winning picture.

The other option would perhaps to be like I said before - make the scoring anonymous, but still allow people to make comments. This would hopefully then rule out:

- 'revenge' voting.
- marking higher than usual as someone gave it a low mark.
- people being swayed by others votes. i.e. if 4 people all gave a 9, you would be tempted to give it a 9 as well.

#34 nynavey

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Posted 11 May 2004 - 08:23 PM

You make valid points, and state one of the reasons I will no longer rate any photos on this site. I'm afraid it's soured me somewhat. I may post for critiques, as those are on the whole wonderful here, but I'm done rating. Some of the last photos that won were poor photos, when beautiful, well composed or amazingly captures shots were revenge-rated poorly. (And I'm not talking about my own photos - I'm talking about the GOOD photographers!)
Nynavae

#35 markgoldstein

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 01:03 PM

To draw a line under all of this, I am planning to change the way in which the Photo of the Week contest is run, in the next couple of weeks.

I'm currently looking at something along the lines of the contests over at http://www.fredmiranda.com, where Fred selects the best X number of entries from the week (in his humble opinion), and then sets up a Poll where everyone can vote for their favourite - therefore you would effectively only get one vote.

So it would be a 2-stage process. I would pick my favourites and create a Poll here on the forum, and you would have a certain number of days in which to vote for the overall winner.

This will only work if:

i) you all trust my judgement and don't question it too much smile.gif
ii) you all take the time to vote for the overall winner

I may also introduce a weekly theme, rather than it being an open contest, and also add some prizes.

The Monthly Competition will stay as it is.

You will still be able to rate photos and leave comments on the main Gallery, where you can choose to ignore them if you want to!

How does that sound?
Mark Goldstein
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#36 Yakographer

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Posted 12 May 2004 - 07:07 PM

Yes! Fine! Topping! Hurry!
---------------------------------
If you're setting yourself up as the judge, though, you'll want to make it crystal clear that you're not going to respond to any emails that question your judgement. Your decisions must be absolutely carved in stone unless very impressive bribes are tendered.

Under the Mark-is-the-Judge concept, I think the theme / assignment idea is necessary; that way, your own biases for subject matter won't get in the way; in addition, having a theme will encourage (force?) people to broaden their photographic horizons.

I for one, will defer to your judgement(s).

L-series lenses would make great prizes, y'know. Okay, okay, never mind.

#37 Kurt

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Posted 13 May 2004 - 06:39 AM

Well I like it as it is.

There is a certain satisfying anarchy about the whole thing. And it seems quite popular since the drive by voting began, but perhaps thats just my perception.

I know that these things get abused and there is tactical voting, but its all part of the fun.

However, if there is to be a prize then it will have to change.

#38 panchals

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Posted 13 May 2004 - 12:15 PM

May I suggest something along the lines of a PR system.

-People can submit unrate crits.
-All Register users get 2 votes a week. One for POTW and a runner up. (other than their own photos, of course)
-They can change there choices during the week as new images are submitted.
-All votes are private
-The winner is the one with the most POTW votes, ties are decided by the most 2nd place votes, then Mark.

This way Mark is not placed in the position of having to chose between different style or themes of photos.

I am not in favour of a theme, simply because it reduces this to a cull of the archive. I love the fact (like this week) a fantastic photo taken a hour ago can be put and shared - rather than waiting for a bugs week.

PhotoFridays themed weekly contest works along similar lines. But the theme mean I cannot photo every week. We have recently had a huge leap in the number of people submitting images for POTW.

No prizes please, let keep this for fun, else we will attract the pros. Even something real simple like a star against the wining image would be enough.

#39 gav_davies

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Posted 13 May 2004 - 03:15 PM

I agree with panchals on not having a theme for the POTW. You already have a theme on the monthly competition and I think it works well like that.

When a theme is set, people tend to stretch the limits of what the theme is anyway, and end up submitting anything that is only slightly related. I think there would end up being arguments about that too tongue.gif

#40 Yakographer

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Posted 13 May 2004 - 06:30 PM

So far it looks like pleasing everybody will not be a likely outcome.

#41 nantel

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Posted 14 May 2004 - 01:22 AM

How about you get to choose 5 pict while the winner of last week's POTW gets to pick 5. Everyone then has to order the images from 1st to last essentially giving it between 1 and 10 points.

#42 jtbrubaker

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Posted 21 May 2004 - 02:10 AM

QUOTE (panchals @ May 13 2004, 12:15 PM)
I am not in favour of a theme, simply because it reduces this to a cull of the archive. I love the fact (like this week) a fantastic photo taken a hour ago can be put and shared - rather than waiting for a bugs week.

Just a counterpoint, themes tend to make me more photo productive. I recently started submitting to Photo Friday, but not because it's a contest. I like the fact that every week there's a new reason to shoot something and that someone else told me what I have to shoot. It gets the juices flowing.

That said, I just submitted my first POTW submission and really liked the fact that I had an outlet for a recent image I thought was fun.

Anyway, I think the problem with POTW is that it's not fun/easy enough to view/vote. A smaller set of pics, announced just after the end of the contest, with a simple yes/no voting scheme should fix that.

Jeff

#43 Kurt

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Posted 22 May 2004 - 07:56 PM

Well I like it as it is.

There is a certain satisfying anarchy about the whole thing. And it seems quite popular since the drive by voting began, but perhaps thats just my perception.

I know that these things get abused and there is tactical voting, but its all part of the fun.

#44 markgoldstein

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Posted 24 May 2004 - 09:43 AM

The 26th Photo of the Week contest is now open. This is a weekly photography contest with no set theme and you can enter as many photos as you like.

There have been some significant changes to the way in which the Photo of the Week contest which affect how the contest is judged. The following rules have been added:

QUOTE
10. After the contest has closed, I will choose what I think are the best photographs in my opinion. I will not choose a specific number of images - it could be 5 one week, 13 the next and so on. Please note that my decision is final and I will ignore any attempts to question it!

11. The overall winner of the contest will then be voted for by you. A Public Poll will be setup on the PhotographyBLOG Forums and you will have 7 days during which you can vote for your favourite photo from the ones that I have chosen. The Poll will then be closed and the overall winner announced.


Click here to read the new Photo of the Week Rules.
Mark Goldstein
Editor, PhotographyBLOG

#45 gav_davies

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Posted 25 May 2004 - 12:17 PM

OK, so any ideas why the following photo was given a 10 by Neddy?

Is this a photo you would have on your wall, does it tell a story, is it technically well taken?

The world's gone mad!!! tongue.gif

http://www.photograp...cat=3036&page=2



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