Jump to content


Photo

Photography Or Photoshop


11 replies to this topic

#1 Hangin10

Hangin10

    Super Member

  • Advanced Members 300
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,353 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Isle of Wight

Posted 04 April 2007 - 10:01 PM

I am very for the use of photoshop or what ever package you can use to touch up images, but is this site about photography or how clever you are with your computer.

I think there are some fantastic manipulated images on here and they have there place, maybe another section, but is it photography?

I don't want it stopped but it would be good to know what the difference was

Paul
Paul
My Website
..............................................................................

Photo Gallery
Sea Shepherd - Support the Whales Navy
My Blog Images

#2 pacificphoto

pacificphoto

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,411 posts

Posted 04 April 2007 - 11:44 PM

Here we go again.

Chris dry.gif

#3 etfon911

etfon911

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,812 posts
  • Interests:Love to write, shoot photos and nature.

Posted 07 April 2007 - 01:21 AM

Look, Paul is right. A photo out of the box is not the same as one that's been heavily Photoshopped. A good/great photo out of the box shows that the photographer has a good command of the technical aspects of the camera at the exact time they are shooting....not after they got home. This is not to deny the appeal of some manipulated photos here, but there have been many that simply would have been impossible to shoot were it not for some PS plugin or filter or heavy clone tool or blur effect. That's NOT an original photograph. It's a manipulated image.

Perhaps there should be some checkbox or something for this so that those with less experience can know how it was done - and not expect to shoot something out of the box like the ones that have been heavily manipulated and posted.

There are some sites where the professional photographers will rate a photo lower if there's too much PS. And they know which ones they are.

#4 pacificphoto

pacificphoto

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,411 posts

Posted 07 April 2007 - 03:59 AM

Nobody is stopping anybody from giving lower ratings for any reason you see fit.

Here are some facts: 1. Photography is the visual representation of light into a condusive shape that serves a purpose, whether it be to represent reality or an artistic expression in the photographer's mind, heart, soul, take your pick.

2. All photography is manipulated. It is impossible to produce an image on a computer screen or a special piece of celulose or paper without some kind of scientific manipulation.

3. All the great master photographers have manipulated their work, be it in the darkroom or on computer, or both.

4. Many cameras (Nikons, for instance) manipulate the digital image before it gets out of the camera, or 'out of the box, per se,' making it punchier, more contrasty and saturated than reality. Many modern cameras have to be set (that's right, the controls have to be manipulated) to produce more 'real' and 'lifelike' images.

5. Anybody who shoots in digital RAW must manipulate the picture to bring it forth where others can share in the joy.

6. Anybody who shoots in JPEG gives control to their camera to manipulate the photo.

7. Any photo ever taken where there was any kind of filter on the camera has been manipulated.

8. Any black & white photo ever produced has been manipulated. Natural visual radiation comes in a wide spectrum that produces not only shades of gray, but a wide gamut of colors, too.

9. Any photo you produce and post on this sight will not (probably...no way to check) honestly look the same to everybody, because computer monitors produce colors differently. Even if they were all calibrated for color output, the brightness and contrast levels would be different from person to person.

10. More options are always better than fewer options, unless you are purposely trying to learn something through a specific limitation exercise. Artistic limitation just because it doesn't fit somebody else's personal impression of what a medium should be, that's oppression. That's a throwback to old thinking. That's anti-progression, and will always spark hot emotion from me.

God, what a rant, eh? I admit I do become emotional about things like this. Over here in the colonies, we live and die by the concept of personal freedom. Some part of every day for me is spent trying to progress art and the human race one more step by coming up with something new, be it photographic, written, or just a shared thought. When people say, no no, you must not think new thought, I shudder and remember the Dark Ages. It was painting and sculpture that violated the delicate senses of the empowered back then. Today it's digital manipulation and tools of the computer.

One of the purposes of the Blog is to learn from each other's work. Now, seriously, if somebody produces a digitally enhanced image and doesn't lie about it, what's the dishonesty? Dishonesty? There is no such thing as a dishonest image. They are what they are. They share, they remember, they teach, they preach, they explore, they grow, they take us through life in a very special way. Each in their own way.

I invite everybody to produce images as they see fit. But I do not give anybody the right to tell me I must do it their way, only their way, and never anything else but their way.

Think new thought! Dare to dream!

Chris

#5 Hangin10

Hangin10

    Super Member

  • Advanced Members 300
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3,353 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Isle of Wight

Posted 07 April 2007 - 08:14 AM

I should have put a bit more detail into this in the beginning.

I agree with nearly everything said so far and would love to see more.

Some of the manipulated images are fantastic on here and I wish I could achieve something close to them. I have a lot to learn and would find it very helpful if people would say how it was done.

What I don't like is when people manipulate images to try and fool us into thinking it was what was not manipulated.

I use photoshop to tidy up images, clean dust spots etc and I have adjusted brightness and contrast where I have not controlled my exposure expertly in the first place (photographing Red Kites flying in strong sunlight).

If you are trying to create something that was different to what you saw with the naked eye or thought you saw, then you should say so. I don't know what the answer to this is.

Our eyes are alot cleverer than the camera and adjust to light. So I can look at a dramatic sky and then look at the landscape and my mind see's a very stunning image which the camera cannot duplicate without adjustment. I just feel that lot of lanscapes have been over manipulated and it is a shame.

I definitely don't want to dictate what people should do.

Paul
Paul
My Website
..............................................................................

Photo Gallery
Sea Shepherd - Support the Whales Navy
My Blog Images

#6 pacificphoto

pacificphoto

    Super Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 8,411 posts

Posted 07 April 2007 - 01:53 PM

Paul, I just came from viewing some of your work with pebbles, and it's really very nice work. Thought I'd take a moment and tell you how pleased I was to see it.

I actually lost sleep last night worrying that I'd come off too harsh on my rant. See, I do that, and I sincerely apologize if I hurt any feelings.

For my part, I'll try to always honestly present techniques I use to get to the final image. I enjoy seeing how other photographers produce their work, and maybe somebody will get some ideas from something I do.

Please accept a blanket future apology for anything I fail to mention due to my memory limitations.

Chris

#7 gazmaster

gazmaster

    Super Member

  • Advanced Members 100
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2,610 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Bournemouth
  • Interests:Photography

Posted 16 April 2007 - 02:54 PM

I totally agree with Etfon, there is far too much manipulation of images going on, and it is imho ruining the art of photography, manipulated images as much as I do like them is not photography, it is how good you are at PSP or PS, it is an artform, but, not in the real sense of the word photography. A photographer sees an image through the lens, it is the photographer that makes the image work, the camera is just a tool to produce that image. If the photographer doesn't like the end result, that image should not be manipulated to the point of having false skies etc etc added. This I believe defeats the object.
Other photography sites I have seen do mark down too much manipulation, they also only allow images in competitions that have the minimum of manipulation, eg clarify tool, unsharp mask, saturation and cropping, this then shows the photographer knows his camera and can produce work without having to manipulate it beyond recognition.
Personally I would like to see another category for manipulated images, and competitions being restricted to the minimum manipulation. This is only my opinion fwiw.
Rant over
G@zz@
Regards

G@zz@

#8 Phil6763

Phil6763

    Super Member

  • Advanced Members 50
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 208 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Chepstow

Posted 11 June 2007 - 06:51 AM

Hi,

I also agree, a photo should be just that a PHOTO, i use photoshop myself on some images and you can really create great stuff, but i would also like to see 2 different galleries available, one for the untoched photos and one for edited work.

Just a thought Phil

#9 JasminenHoney

JasminenHoney

    Super Member

  • Advanced Members 300
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5,410 posts
  • Gender:Female

Posted 26 June 2007 - 07:34 AM

Hi Guys (Gals)...

I would like to say this without sounding too dumb, or rather un-experienced when it comes to the subject that has arisen. I have to admit with ALL comments made in this post and being new I would like to add a few recomendations... First & foremaost is NO restrictions have been posted as what I have read since first joining less than 2 wks ago & IF there is to be some on how a photo is fixed, then this issue needs to be addressed & posted so that new members will know & follow guidelines set forth.
I will admit that I HAVE used Photshop BUT for increasing/decreasing size & for crouping, as for anything else one can & might do I have yet to master or use.

Jass

#10 kenp

kenp

    Super Member

  • Advanced Members 100
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5,563 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Interests:My intrests are my camera,,fishing ,and extracting Jack Russel hairs from my sensor!,,,,

Posted 28 June 2007 - 05:17 PM

What's Photoshop?......
If I see something I "SHOOT!"

#11 FiZZ

FiZZ

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 16 September 2007 - 09:49 AM

Interesting debate. One of my favorites online.

Here are my thoughts and practices.

I shoot mostly film. I do my own developing/printing.

When I want to share something online or use it in digital format, I scan in the negative and I work with the digital file.

A lot of times, the negative is scratched or filled with dirt, thanks to the oh so clean water of my college.

In that case, I go back and clean the negative in PS.

Another problem I find, is that sometimes either the film/lens/developing of a said batch produces film that doesn't have a lot of contrast of brightness, in which case I fix that up in PhotoShop.

Any more manipulation and I state it. I also make sure I post in the appropriate places.

I think the general frustration is not the fact that people manipulate their images to make them look pretty, but the fact that they manipulate them and do not STATE it.

#12 Dabs

Dabs

    Super Member

  • Advanced Members 50
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 442 posts
  • Location:England South Yorkshire
  • Interests:Photography. Reading, The great outdoors.

Posted 16 September 2007 - 04:36 PM

Surely if an image is pleasing to the eye does it really matter how it was acheived. After all is that not what we are all trying to do. It takes a lot skill to use photoshop skillfully as it does to take the original image. Put the two together and the the world of photography is endless. Its just another tool to create that perfect image.



Reply to this topic



  


0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users