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Is This The Place To Place "honesty"? On Images?


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#16 JasminenHoney

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 09:11 AM

John….
It is really quite interesting - I woke up one morning to find that there is some guy who doesn't know jack telling me - and the rest of the world - that I own something that I do not own! AND then, he will just NOT listen to me when I tell him straight up that he is wrong. Who better to know what I did, and what I own than me? I was there, and he wasn’t... but if you listen to him, I guess it would have to be him Such omniscient authority! I wish I could have some of that!!

You speak of “honesty”, but you do not want to hear it. I am the person you say “took” The photo – and I have quite clearly told you that did NOT take the photo. The fact of the matter is that, in this instance, the person IN the photo did the taking…. And you just cannot, or will not, grasp that. That is your shortcoming, yet you persist on making false and personal claims against someone when you do not know of the circumstances (and, when advised, ignore them and persist on imposing your own uninformed idea of the “facts”). Perhaps the technique is beyond your ability to perceive, but then if it is, turn in your shutter delay function immediately – you are too myopic to use it in a consistent manner.
Let me ask you (and all of you) a simple question or two: How many of you use digital cameras? Most of you, right?? OK – how many of you use auto focus and auto exposure?? Most of you, right?? OK… here’s the question. If your camera is doing the focusing and exposure control, WHO is taking the photograph? – YOU, or the Nikon/Canon/etc. PROGRAMMER?? And, then, who “owns” the shot?? (for those of you who don’t like “lawyers contributing to the discussion, well – it might be a good thing to not make legal conclusions when you don’t know what you are talking about… stay within your own area of expertise)

To me – the criteria for ownership of intellectual and artistic control resides with the person who’s THINKING went into the creation of the shot – setting of composition, f-stop, shutter speed, and the like. And, that is what you are seeing. UN-thinking pressing of buttons and switches is NOT “photography”. Yet, that is precisely what so many do, and then lay claim to the title of “photographer”.

I no more “own” that shot than I own the aircraft the photo was taken on… but your logic would have it that since I was there, I must. That is simply ludicrous, and is so misguided as to be absolutely silly. Perhaps even hypocritical – unless you tell us all that you shot exclusively MANUAL (and, do not expect us to believe that one…).

I find it amazing that some people have nothing better to do with their lives than to argue about MY owning property that I tell you squarely and straight up that I do NOT own (who better to know than ME.. YOU???... absurd!)… Live with it! It is not MY photo, and I did not take the shot!

And, you are being MORE than unfair to the person who did.

Shame on you – and a pox on your auto focus mechanism…!)

Actually – I thought the photo was quite appropriate – the topic was holidays, and what better personal message than an image of smiling, comfortable enjoyment of a bit of momentary luxury? Isn’t that what it is all about? Especially when the message provided (“Cheers!) was meant in fondness to all of you in light of the holidays, breaks, and vacations you all took and enjoyed – but then, there is always that small number of small people that have to destroy good feelings and sympathies when ever possible. And that is really too bad.

Now – why don’t you all just cut the crap, and get back to discussing photography …. That is the purpose of this website.
(and leave hypothetical and uninformed conclusions as to what I may or may not own out of it)

Regards … The NON-owner of the photo.

PS... I shoot in film (exclusively), and in manual - I don't own a digital camera because I can't find one without the auto focus and AE -- I don't like to cheat... and that programmer is just NOT as good a photographer as I am!




#17 Willy Wombat

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 09:41 AM

It's a shame that this site has become a just for fun site, i feel for the new members that join hoping to get help, tuition or just plain good old advise and what i would say to them, if you are not already a member of a camera club then join one, you will learn much more from a club than on any site. i rejoined this site a while back thinking i had something to offer, after all you don't have a hobby for 26 years and not learn anything.
There are some good photographers on this site and a good many of them have stopped visiting the site which is a shame. i would just like to say, ANY comments i gave were made with the sole purpose of pointing out how i thought the image could be improved or advising on composition etc.
Anyway enough is enough so like the closing words of a good old US sitcom, redrum has left the building, so let the party begin.

John

Haven't a clue what you are ranting on about as all your posts were blocked the other day.
> John

#18 mc_hino

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 11:43 AM

In my opinion, this site has lost the original direction. Images were great when I joined the blog and I concur with John about a lot of good photographers have left the site and others just don't post very often. I also agree with him and others regarding the fun pics, even when I think fun images can be very creative too and are great to see. But lately I just see low quality images, full of noise and sharpless; and quite a lot 'frankenstains'. It's great to learn a new technique like HDR, but after a while, either you improve them take our suggestions or stop posting them because there is a problem about it: like it happens with bad smells and our noses, eyes got used to bad quality images and we think 'our kids' (our creations) are always good. This is collective place, we should think only about ourselves, but about others too. Lately I have seen so many 'superbs' in such bad images, and sorry for this but it's my opinion, that I can understand people have left and others are thinking about leaving. ; I don't know why some people are on the defensive all the time for simple things;and I don't know what laws has to do when a member just give his opinion. Also, there is nothing wrong about auto settings because you can take bad images with them too. Composition, angle, subject,lighting, etc... can't be automatic things and that makes the differece between bad images and art.

I really appreciate most of the people on this blog, and some of them are really good friends. I stopped posting lately and I won't do it for a while; I know I'm not the only one who thinks this.

C.

#19 JasminenHoney

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 01:41 PM

QUOTE...
i post pics that i take and cant really believe people would have the audacity to try to pass off other
peoples pictures/work,

who are they trying to kid ?
UNQUOTE


Jabber...
NO ONE is posting photos that they did not take!
That is the very point.

I have to keep telling you guys -- it is not MINE!
Quit trying to shove it down MY throat.
And, Give JasminenHoney some credit, for God's sake.

Have you ever tanken a self portrait?... Ever use the shutter delay? ... This is a similar kind of thing.

John has done a HUGE diservice to JasminenHoney for his unfounded comments and accusations - things for which he has absolutley NO knowledge or informationa at all. He is wrong...

John, for some reason, wants any and all to believe that I am the one who took a photograph that JasminenHoiney "took" - but it is, in fact, entirely her intellectual and creative work, and I think she did a pretty good job of trying to use it in a positive and cosntructive way... She decided the composition, shutter speed, f-stop, and all else. And that is a lot more than most who let the camera's auto focus and AE features do most of the driving!

Too bad that John doesn't care to listen.

For all - Once and for All -- THAT IS NOT MY PHOTO, AND I DID NOT TAKE IT... JasminenHoneyh did.

It is her craft, and her thought processes at work...



Regards,
The guy falsely accused of taking the photo....

#20 Guest_artfulpics_*

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 03:00 PM

>PS... I shoot in film (exclusively), and in manual - I don't own a digital camera because I can't find one without the auto focus and AE -- I don't like to >cheat... and that programmer is just NOT as good a photographer as I am!

(quoted from above)



The good news is that most DSLR cameras these days can be shot in manual, the auto focus can be turned off, as well as AE. The expense and hassle of film is no longer a necessity to shoot like film, if you get my point.

Chris

#21 JasminenHoney

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 04:25 PM


The good news is that most DSLR cameras these days can be shot in manual, the auto focus can be turned off, as well as AE. The expense and hassle of film is no longer a necessity to shoot like film, if you get my point.

Chris
[/quote]


Chris...
NOTHING works like film!
I didn't say I didn't know how to USE a DSLR... I am, in fact, with adept at the silly things. But, you do not get anywhere near the control and operating range with a DSLR lense in so-called manual mode as you do with a good old manual - the difference is so immense tah it is beyond the worth of trying to describe it. A lot like Matel and Nikon, years ago.

The manufacturers are so aware that so few DLSR users are not using those little manual switches, that they are now blatantly getting away with vastly inferior lenses than they used to, and put in such sloppy manual controls on the systems that it confounds the whole point - so, I choose to stay with mechanical cameras, and and seek good digital backs where possible... or, otherwise use the old manual lenses on the digitals (like Canon still lets you sort of do). As well as most of the medium and large formats. Pricey, though... is it really worth $10K or more just to get a ditgital format, and the joy of of computer non-photography?
Besides, I think the smell of photo chemicals is... great!
And, there is nothing like a darkroom...
I'll happily go with the expense of film (for as long as I can)... and the hassle of finding it when necessary...
When I NEED to go digital (and I do a LOT of dgotal imagery of several different kinds and types), I use my wife's cameras... and - Yep - when the mechanics fo the camera let me, I go manual (or, at least apperture priority)

My earlier poijt is tht MOST peopel DO use the AF and AE - but it is the programmer that thn made the decisions of the shot - not the person doing the high-price version of "point and shoot"... to me, choosing the f-stop and shutter speed are an essential part of photography, and making those cruscial decisions that Photography is made of.
Point or plane of focus and DOF are crucial craft decisions - why let the device make those choices? (other than the fact that it is getting harder to get the camera to let US do that these days...)







#22 desertpea

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 01:46 AM

If my children behaved like this, I'd ground them.

#23 Bridget

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 06:13 AM

Well said Jan

Bridget

#24 tivey

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 10:11 AM

I am with Jan and Bridget in this. Stop this nonsense

Viv


#25 richard crowe

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 10:57 PM

I could say a lot - but I wont say anything at all (well almost nothing). Its not worth the hassle. Many have hit the nail on the head already anyway. It is sad that this site has been gradually going downhill (my own view, of course). It was once an excellent place to be a part of - an excellent place to learn. Perhaps it has not changed that much, perhaps it is me who has changed. Whichever, as Carmen says, there doesnt seem to be the same desire to produce good photographs anymore (there are a few exceptions of course). But, on the whole, I feel that the standard has dropped. I used to come on here and be inspired - now I come on and it is hard to find anything that is close to good (my own view, of course). I am just lingering on the outskirts now. Only posting every so often. Waiting, I guess, in the hope or expectation that things may take a turn for the better. Perhaps this is not the right attitude? Perhaps. But I feel ground down.

Here's hoping!

Richard
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#26 markgoldstein

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 12:14 PM

There are two main issues to address here, I feel...

Rule 5 of the Competition Rules clearly states:
All images posted must be the work of the author posting.

This is included mainly to prevent entrants from stealing or passing off other people's photos (who they almost certainly don't know) as their own, therefore aiming to profit from another person's work and additionally abuse their intellectual copyright.
There's something of a grey area when relatives or friends give someone permission to submit photos on their behalf.
Whilst this is OK for the non-competitive areas of the Gallery, in the interest of fairness, you should only submit photos to the Photo of the Week or Monthly Competition that you actually took yourself - whether that's by pressing the shutter-button, using the self-timer etc.

Regarding the perceived recent changes in the site, heated public "discussions" like this one do nothing to make it attractive to either new or existing users.
The Gallery has always thrived on people having a healthy respect for each other, even if they don't always share the same viewpoint.
I'd therefore like to remind everyone to try and be considerate at all times to each other, even if you hold opposing views.



Mark Goldstein
Editor, PhotographyBLOG

#27 JasminenHoney

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 06:19 PM

QUOTE (markgoldstein @ Sep 2 2008, 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
There are two main issues to address here, I feel...

Rule 5 of the Competition Rules clearly states:
All images posted must be the work of the author posting.

This is included mainly to prevent entrants from stealing or passing off other people's photos (who they almost certainly don't know) as their own, therefore aiming to profit from another person's work and additionally abuse their intellectual copyright.
There's something of a grey area when relatives or friends give someone permission to submit photos on their behalf.
Whilst this is OK for the non-competitive areas of the Gallery, in the interest of fairness, you should only submit photos to the Photo of the Week or Monthly Competition that you actually took yourself - whether that's by pressing the shutter-button, using the self-timer etc.

Regarding the perceived recent changes in the site, heated public "discussions" like this one do nothing to make it attractive to either new or existing users.
The Gallery has always thrived on people having a healthy respect for each other, even if they don't always share the same viewpoint.
I'd therefore like to remind everyone to try and be considerate at all times to each other, even if you hold opposing views.


Mark...
I think ppl have missed the point...
I was called an ourtright LIAR as to WHO OWNED the Image...
That is WHERE this heated debate arouse from.
I Do Not & Did Not Appreciate John (Wikky Wombat/Redrum) telling me I had NO RIGHTS to My image.
My husband took control of re-posting it (At this point I was fed-up with a person I held in high regards) disgrace me publicy...
The Compition at that precise time meant zero personally to me. That is the Truth IF anyone gives a *D* to know. Which I feel, judging from All the comments made... No-one does!
Comes down in knowing alot more about the people than meets the eye... and I for one have had enough.
This WILL be my last comment or rather reply made as to my image... Period.

One thing I would strongly advice... IS that your *RULES* NEED CLEARIER STATEMENTS for any new member who thinks about joining this blog... and has thoughts of Entering ANY Compition whether it is Photo of the Week or The Monthly.

~Kelly
PS.... Thanks for not sending me my monthly PhotographyBLOG Newsletter.

#28 tivey

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 09:45 AM

That's it - I am having a blog break. I am fed up of this shenagins!

Viv


#29 Bridget

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 11:25 AM

Ok,i'm with Viv,some just don't know when to give it a rest.

Bridget

#30 chappo1

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 11:02 PM

A last sentence from me- I agree with Bridget and Viv and will post elsewhere for while
john
QUOTE (Bridget @ Sep 3 2008, 09:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok,i'm with Viv,some just don't know when to give it a rest.

Bridget

We're off to see the Lizard~~the wonderful (sic) Lizard of Oz~~



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