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#1 gazmaster

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Posted 11 November 2005 - 08:29 PM

Just wondered if anyone else has noticed how different it is recently on the gallery site, might just be me I suppose, but quite a few regulars are missing now, or are very minimal in their presence, and I feel the general mood has gone down quite a bit.
There was and still is a certain amount of bickering going on, which at the end of the day is not what this site is all about I thought, personally I feel the rating system should be got rid of, leave comments and critique for sure, but why the need for rating I don't know, recently there have been a few new members to the group and it seems that they will rate down photos without a reason, other than, "Don't like this one", Ok everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when 4 others think the photo is of good quality and then you get a new member rating it low cos he doesn't like it, personally I feel this makes a mockery of the rating system.
I certainly hope this isn't a start of a demise on this site as I find it a very friendly place to hangout in.
Hopefully this is just a blip and it get's back to normal asap.

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#2 tootsie

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 10:13 PM

QUOTE (gazmaster @ Nov 11 2005, 08:29 PM)
Just wondered if anyone else has noticed how different it is recently on the gallery site, might just be me I suppose, but quite a few regulars are missing now, or are very minimal in their presence, and I feel the general mood has gone down quite a bit.
There was and still is a certain amount of bickering going on, which at the end of the day is not what this site is all about I thought, personally I feel the rating system should be got rid of, leave comments and critique for sure, but why the need for rating I don't know, recently there have been a few new members to the group and it seems that they will rate down photos without a reason, other than, "Don't like this one", Ok everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but when 4 others think the photo is of good quality and then you get a new member rating it low cos he doesn't like it, personally I feel this makes a mockery of the rating system.
I certainly hope this isn't a start of a demise on this site as I find it a very friendly place to hangout in.
Hopefully this is just a blip and it get's back to normal asap.

Regards

G@zm@aster  ph34r.gif


#3 tootsie

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Posted 14 November 2005 - 10:30 PM

Gazmaster..I am sorry to say that a very good site has and is being ruined by some individuals who don,t seem to understand that there are different grades of photographers,and that this site is supposed to be for people who enjoy sharing their images and discussing techniques and learning from each other. They ridicule people who are just starting, putting them right off listing any more shots.They knock people who are getting good with their cameras by giving them low ratings or coming with stupid statements like BORING subject, personally I think it would be boring if we all liked the same things.Why do you think so many of the good photographers have left the site or are no longer listing anything.Quite a few of them have gone to P-Base or photo net where you get a more intelligent conversation about photography, they have ratings as well but don,t seem have these vengeful characters who seem to think they are better than anyone else.The person I feel sorry for is Mark, he started something very good,but his site is being ruined by these individuals.

#4 markgoldstein

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 09:49 AM

I check the comments on a daily basis and the majority of them seem to be positive, rather than negative. You will always get people who aren't so "enthusiastic", let's say, in any community, although obviously it worries me if there are too many and they are rude and obnoxious to other members. If you know of any particular members or comments that are out of order, please let me know.

I guess the fact that the Gallery is free to participate in will always attract a few members who are out just to cause trouble. On the other hand, a Payment Only membership scheme would probably drastically cut the overall participation levels.

As Tootsie has said, removing the Ratings system probably isn't the answer. In a bid to find a middle ground, I've just changed the Gallery settings so that any ratings without a comment attached will NOT appear. This should discourage people from randomly marking photos down. I think this instantly applies to every photo in the Gallery, as well as future submissions.

Please let me know in, say, a week's time if you think this is making a difference.
Mark Goldstein
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#5 markgoldstein

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 09:53 AM

Actually, that's not going to work, as the rating still appears for the photo anyway - it just doesn't display who made it at the bottom of the screen (which is probably worse than the current system!). I've changed it back to as before.
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#6 Chuckiesinluv

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 08:01 PM

QUOTE (tootsie @ Nov 14 2005, 10:30 PM)
Gazmaster..I am sorry to say that a very good site has and is being ruined by some individuals who don,t seem to understand that there are different grades of photographers,and that this site is supposed to be for people who enjoy sharing their images and discussing techniques and learning from each other. They ridicule people who are just starting, putting them right off listing any more shots.They knock people who are getting good with their cameras by giving them low ratings or coming with stupid statements like BORING subject, personally I think it would be boring if we all liked the same things.Why do you think so many of the good photographers have left the site or are no longer listing anything.Quite a few of them have gone to P-Base or photo net where you get a more intelligent conversation about photography, they have ratings as well but don,t seem have these vengeful characters who seem to think they are better than anyone else.The person I feel sorry for is Mark, he started something very good,but his site is being ruined by these individuals.


#7 donmac

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Posted 15 November 2005 - 08:33 PM

I think the site does have a problem with grading. I have noticed that there are a lot more new members recently and so a corresponding number of new posts daily. There are posts of all grades from complete amateur to professional to joke posts. Its got to the stage that when we post pics they get swallowed up and its difficult to get feedback. Perhaps we need some kind of grading system for the galleries, i.e. amateur, intermediate and advanced. This would result in fairer rating also.
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#8 daveb

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 12:10 PM

Guys, (a long post – sorry) somewhat surprised to find this thread however I am very much a newbie (to PB, but have contributed to other forums for a good while) so am obviously unaware of the trend. Personally I am enjoying PB very much. Keep looking on the bright side smile.gif

Rating systems always cause a bit of head scratching. You will never stop ‘buddy’ or ‘pay-back’ rating by some but my experience is that this is a very small minority. For the rest of us, whether we tend to rate high, low or in the middle (in terms of the number) doesn’t really mater, it should all even out as long as everyone is consistent in what they do.

Personally I don’t really place much weight on the rating for two reasons ……..
1. Public forums will always be made of individuals of differing abilities both in terms of the images they post and the comments / rating they are able to give.
2. It’s the comments which are important to me. It’s by useful and constructive criticism that I learn and improve. It is also the opportunity to try new areas of photography as the comments give a good indication if I am along the right lines etc.

Picking up on this second point, it’s the very reason why I take part in forums like PB. I would rather receive 20 concise, useful critiques from fellow photographers than a log diatribe from a so-called ‘expert’ (e.g. a club judge). If 10 people say that the composition doesn’t work then the composition doesn’t work ….. fact. If only 1 out of 20 says it then that’s their minority opinion. It’s a 2-way thing, the person commenting should try and be helpful + it is up to the recipient to separate the wheat from the chaff

If everyone didn’t get hung up on the rating thing and concentrated on giving honest opinion expressed in a positive and helpful way then we all gain, from the most proficient to the complete beginner.

Personally I wouldn’t place ‘amateur’ on a scale with ‘intermediate’ and ‘advanced’ but it would be good to know someone's own perception of their level when they post a pic as this would allow any comments to be pitched correctly. It would avoid ‘grannies + eggs’ to advanced photographers and being too technical to beginners etc

Lastly In my short time here I feel very positive about the PB site, gallery and forums. One area I would like to see is a dedicated ‘critique’ gallery so that I could post an image that I was unsure of, explain what I was trying to achieve and ask for some feedback; or where I needed some advice in a specific area of, say, composition etc.

Cheers, chin up, Dave B.

#9 Jogi

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 03:05 PM

Hi you fellow image getters!
One of the big plus points for this site is its diversity and of course we should , i think, be grateful that this is encouraged and for the most part tolerated. The site will inevitably go through some bad patches but these are just natural fluctuations and I don't think we should become too pessimistic.As for me I wish i had more time to browse the site and comment freely ,but I don;t so I am grateful for the rough guide the ratings give me when I'm in a rush as there is nothing worse then checking out a thumbnail with two or three unrated comments finding out they are all negative comments and replys to them. Anyway..happy exposures...Jogi
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#10 gazmaster

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Posted 16 November 2005 - 06:35 PM

QUOTE (tootsie @ Nov 14 2005, 10:30 PM)
Gazmaster..I am sorry to say that a very good site has and is being ruined by some individuals who don,t seem to understand that there are different grades of photographers,and that this site is supposed to be for people who enjoy sharing their images and discussing techniques and learning from each other. They ridicule people who are just starting, putting them right off listing any more shots.They knock people who are getting good with their cameras by giving them low ratings or coming with stupid statements like BORING subject, personally I think it would be boring if we all liked the same things.Why do you think so many of the good photographers have left the site or are no longer listing anything.Quite a few of them have gone to P-Base or photo net where you get a more intelligent conversation about photography, they have ratings as well but don,t seem have these vengeful characters who seem to think they are better than anyone else.The person I feel sorry for is Mark, he started something very good,but his site is being ruined by these individuals.


It is a shame Tootsie that the blog has and is being ruined by a very small minority, when I first joined which wasn't so long ago, the amount of good photographers which were knowledgable in their field was brilliant, I looked and admired certain works of Art, and I have been helped by a couple of them via email.
I read the other day that advice should be given in a sandwich context, starting with a +ve then -ve than another +ve, this then shows no bad feeling and hopefully the advice within would be of a helpful, constructive manner. This I feel would be the way forward without causing animosity within PB.
Like you I also feel sorry for Mark as this site is something to be proud of setting up, I just hope that the certain individuals don't ruin it for the majority of great people on this site.

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#11 desertpea

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 05:08 AM

I, too, regret the demise of a lot of 'old' contributors - maintly because I envy their talent! There is always some disagreement about what does/does not constitute a good 'photograph', but there was some personal invective, about which we all know, that alienated some of the long-term contributors and caused them to go elsewhere. I have a feeling that things will change and get back to the way it was, but perhaps it's just progress, but the list of people who have disappeared is alarming I think. I'm just hangin' on in there, waiting for the next phase :smile:

I don't think the ratings system has anything to do with it - it's recent past comments that have turned good people away. For myself, I don't mind what comments people make as long as they're not personal (yes, I admit! I have made some comments that I cringe over ...), and meant to improve. If we can only make 'Oh GEE! What a great photo!' comments, that defeats the purpose. Criticise, but be constructive.

So endeth the first lesson ...

And just a peronsl nit pick - why, oh why, bother about borders and frames etc etc when the pics are limited to such a small size? Gimme the photo!

#12 desertpea

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 05:13 AM

PS! Oops! I should have said 'Refer to daveb'. He/she seems to have said it al - what a pity he/she isn't sharing the wisdom.

#13 daveb

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 09:24 AM

QUOTE (desertpea @ Nov 17 2005, 06:13 AM)
PS!  Oops!  I should have said 'Refer to daveb'.  He/she seems to have said it al - what a pity he/she isn't sharing the wisdom.


Afraid I don’t know what you mean desertpea.

Sharing ……… I can share, I’m Scottish, we’re renowned for sharing (except money of course wink.gif ). Do you mean posting/contributing? well, I’m kinda ‘new kid in the playground’ so a bit hesitant to push forward at the mo. I have commented in the forums and on pics a just a little so far and will do more so as time goes along.

Wisdom ……… bloomin’ eck, I’ve none of that. Just a long term 50yo keen amateur who got here via the ‘35mm film SLR + darkroom in a cupboard under the stairs’ route and went fully digital a couple of years ago after a few years away from photography. Trying to get the three brain cells I have left around PS (ouch!). BTW it’s ‘he’.

BTW desertpea, aren’t you the guy who mentioned about being an ex-Bathonian? I’m in Midsomer Norton about 10 miles south, small world. Came down here in the ‘70s.

Australia eh! well I won’t mention the Rugby then rolleyes.gif

Cheers, Dave B (David Beveridge)

#14 desertpea

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 03:01 PM

Lordy! Lordy! Adveb I used to live in Radstock and worked in Midsomer Norton! Small world! All kinds of people migrate to that beautiful part of the world :smile:, and then they come here for better weather! Rugby?!!! Rugby?!!! Only people who know how to play rugby are the All Blacks and they have the added advantage of being quite the most attractive collection of eye candy for us poor, deprived females ... but I digress and will go and have a cold shower.

#15 daveb

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Posted 17 November 2005 - 03:32 PM

QUOTE (desertpea @ Nov 17 2005, 04:01 PM)
the most attractive collection of eye candy for us poor, deprived females ... but I digress and will go and have a cold shower.


ROFL ...... yip, even I can see that, and I'm a bloke!!

Stay happy, Dave B.



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