There have been many heated and quite intense arguments with regard critics leaving what is thought to be bad numeric ratings for images on the blog. Also, there are many people that will leave only a numeric rating, not leaving a comment as to why the image was liked or disliked. So my feeling is that the numeric rating system should be scrapped, maybe replaced with a better one, or even just got rid of all together.
This will then leave the critic the option to comment on the image more constructively in my humble opinion.
What say you?

G@zm@ster

Interesting, 7 views and no opinions or votes

BTTT

Come on people, let's see some good old democracy in action

G@zz@

Am with you on this. I already only leave comments hopefully helpful maybe not. I see the same sort of infighting on a lot of photo sites whereever there are ratings. I will say it doesnt totally go away because comments also can spark problems but thats up to individuals to give and accept comments in good spirit. Good on you for speaking up about it.

Many thanks Tumrumble for your support and comments much appreciated.

I think the rating system is difficult to get right.Some members are more advanced than others,so opinions will differ.I think though that for beginers like myself it is nice to be able to see if a photo is good or not so good and why.So perhaps the ratings can be a little unfair at times.Constructive critism good or bad worded correctly would ,i think suffice without the nasty inuendos. .Ratings then perhaps should be replaced with something differant.imo.

Hi Gaz just home for a bit of R and R, I totally agree with you but wouldnt it be more advisable to increase the rating system.For some people if they see a ten rating they believe that the vote is equivelent to an Ansell Adams picture however it is not,but if they saw a 18 out of 20 it would not offend their purist views.I myself have a cracking camera and Im buggered if I can take a shot on it that Im truly pleased with, but I do like someone to give me a mark ,call me old fashioned but its like being at school we all need a point to or mark to judge ourselves by. .Hopefully this might stop a lot of drawn daggers its possibly the difference between a quid and two pound which is !.99 if you know what I mean.Thats my sway on it but Im either in two minds or undecided

Hi all,Same old subject arises again.ever since ive been using this site there has been controversy about the rating system,i myself took offence to a rating i was given when i first joined and angerly replied.hence not knowing the person at the time,ie;Gav Davies which as you all know produces fantastic shots. and he was only trying to help me with Constructive critism,Once i stopped taking offence,and actually thought about what he was saying,it all started to fall into place,If it wasnt for him, my standard of photo`s would have remained the same.(not that they have improved that much lol) but i for one believe that critism on all levels is a valuable asset to this blog,Good or Bad take it for what it is,don`t feel offended by comments,try to learn by them
As for ratings, well there not that important are they?? to me there not!! I appreciate good or bad comments more then ratings,
sorry to go on, didn`t mean to write a book!! ha ha!!

While sympathising with the dilemma i for one would be sorry to see the ratings go. I think that they often provide a bit of realism that the comments don't provide or which people feel unable to put into words tactfully. (although ideally they should). I think we all get a bit over sensitive about the ratings anyway..... i would rather have a low rating and no comment than absolutely nothing at all.........I mean a one rating even suggests that i have evoked something with my image...!!!

Hi Guys...Hmmm. not this old chestnut .I agree with Potto,I too would be disappointed to see the rating system go, quite often you can be faced with alarge group of pleasing images and I personally find it easier and less time consuming to give a positive rating then to seach around for some original comment. I think also you get to know which ratings to value after a time and I believe most people now are attempting to be a bit more 'realistic' in there ratings. Someone mentioned ratings upto 20 that might be a solution. But remember one persons amazing image is anothers.......yawn! Take care Jogi

I have voted to keep the ratings, I know it can be a double edged sword, but I have found they give inspiration in the fact that a good rating is a measure of the pleasure given by a pic, regardless of the level of expertise of the rater.

However the difficulty is in not knowing the level of expertise of the person actually taking the shot. and the expertise and level of ability of the rater, ie I sometimes rate some of Tootsie's 'hard' (in as much as they're still miles better than anything I've ever taken) against her own standards of excellence. The same shot by a newcomer would justify rating better, to give encouragement for their effort. It is a fine balance.
some other sites have a system of ratings which include categories like 1-10 for originality, composition, overall appeal, or similar. perhaps this would allow more indepth critique via ratings and let the photographer know how the rater is judging the photo and why.

I also agree with potto /tetters that a broader range (ie 1-20) would allow more subtlety and variance in the system.

OK moan over, before I too write a novel (again)lol.
Jan

Hardly a moan Jan ,just a rational approach echoing the latter part of this thread, remember that most of the time it works ok as it is guys.I like the idea of sort of sub devisions of ratings though....Jogi

BTTT Democracy can't work with just 10 votes, come on people

This old chestnut keeps cropping upt time after time whenever there is a perceived 'disturbance in The Force', but it manages to level out after a while. There are sites where there are not ratings systems, but I always feel that they're a bit muddy somehow. No system is perfect and, in the main, there's not much wrong with having a ratings system unless people choose to take offence, or be petty in their ratings without giving constructive criticism. Personally, I'd like to see a system which reflects both the personal appeal of the photograph and the technical aspects - something like Figure Skating in the Winter Olympics where there are points given for technical expertise and artistic interpretation. You can have technically striking photographs without any 'soul' and vice versa.

To cut a long story short I don't see anything wrong with how things are and have been on the site. If you don't want to give a rating, don't. But I quite like it. I take seriously the 'scores' I get from people whose work I appreciate, and would like to have more constructive criticism. I hope I can ignore the rest. When the history of the world is written, none of this will get a mention. Let's just have fun and hope to improve what we do. Meanwhile, let's not get our knickers in a twist.

I have just posted the following on my photo "The Future"

"RANT OF THE WEEK.
Comments from 4 different people and no ratings. And only one "by the way" remark about the photo. I appreciate the debate on energy, but this is photography blog and I post my photos to get opinions on their merit or lack of it. I have improved immensely since I started posting here and it has been mostly due to listening to criticism and looking at the ratings. I dont mind bad criticism or ratings. I realise some people are against the rating system, but I am not. I think its a great way to appraise a photo. So here is an idea. All those who DO NOT want their photos rated put a big "DO NOT RATE ME" at the top of their picture. We could do it the other way round, but I think the majority of people DO want their photo rated. I quite like this photo but do I assume from lack of ratings that nobody else does?
PLEASE RATE THIS PHOTO.
Rant over. Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile"


I think this idea of not rating is having an adverse effect here. This IS a photo site with a rating system. WHY post here if you dont want a rating. I now have a photo posted for appraisal and have no idea" what people think. I experiment a lot with PS and would love some feedback. Ratings are a great form of feedback. Sometimes people cannot be bothered with a long winded speech or , if like me, they may be two finger typists who take an age to get a sentence out.
UP WITH THE "RATINGS"
DOWN WITH THE "NO RATINGS"

DON

Excellent Rant Don

Personally my gripe with the rating system, doesn't stem from getting low ratings, because ATEOTD thankfully we all have differing tastes. My gripe is that we cannot RIP (RATE IN PEACE) My technical knowledge of photography doesn't come close to many on this blog, but when I see an image I like, and one maybe I would want on my wall, or one that I would want to try and do myself, I will rate it very highly eg 9-10, this then will get slated by the "No image is worth a 10 brigade" and undermean my original rating.
Members should respect other members opinions and ratings, and judge the image and not the ratings others have made. (Hope that made sense)
So lets all RIP == RATE IN PEACE

G@zz@

I've cast my vote in favour of the ratings Gaz. Overall I think the system works ie the better photos get due credit. My own system for rating is to award an 8 or 9 for those I think are technically sound, have subject matter of interest, and/or have some amount of Wow factor. For an award of 10 the image would have to have all of the above mentioned plus that little extra bit of Wow that smacks you slap bang in the retinas which in turn would be able to send me to my knees in tears of despair and frustration now knowing that I am no longer worthy of ever using a camera again!
As for receiving ratings I, like most people, like having my ego stroked and knowing that other people appreciate my photographic efforts. I've said somewhere on the blog before that the ratings should be taken with a pinch of salt as the people giving them (us) aren't judges or experts but like minded photographers of all levels just sharing their results. In the short while I've been a member here I've come to learn which other members are likely to award high or low to an image I'd perhaps rate differently. You'd expect an entry level photographer will be more likely to award higher level ratings than a more advanced one as they've yet to develop the expertise that comes with experience but I for one accept compliments from where ever they come (criticisms too)
I guess the point here is that if you don't wish to vote, don't and if you do, carry on, but don't abolish something because it's no longer relevant to you personally..........Rant Ends........

I think the ratings system is a good idea as it allows everyone to leave their views. As much as I appreciate all reviews whether they be negative or positive I do like to see what people think based upon their scoring. Even for people who for whatever reason, perhaps modesty, dont wish to leave remarks can still leave a score which in turn gives me an idea of how much my picture is liked or disliked.

The scoring system is used in so many ways to judge events from olympic ice skating to cinema reviews. It is widely regarded as an accurate adjudication on how good or bad something is. I have even known people to review the kissing techniques of other people based on a rating system, "He was a 7 out of 10". I never did find out what my score was!

Perhaps the answer is to have some form of guide to which we can base our votes upon. For example a score out of 10 for technical quality, another score for subject matter and so on.

Personally I would like it if more people would rate my photos. I am a new member here, I have a crappy old Tawanese 3.1Mp digital camera that has seen better days. But I still want to know what people think of my photos. A low rating will make me look more closely at the pic and try to see where I can improve it, a high rating, well

I believe that the current system works well. There are two aspects which I consider make it a valid system

1. There are probably quite a few members fairly new to photography here. They may fell unable to write a valid critique, but they can vote to express their opinion of the photo.

2. The more experienced and knowledgeable can write a critique, and if they desire cast a vote also.

Although not necessarily based on technical aspects I still valur the opinions of those who feel unable or unqualified to critique my photos. You don't have to BE a good photographer to appreciate good photographs, and no matter how technically good they are if no one likes them then I would prefer to know that.

It is an intersting thing, I have seen many comments on portraits, which is my favourite subject as you will see if you view my photos, where the critic says " really good looking model". Now in reality that is completely irrelevant to the quality of the photograph, but it is actually the overall impression of a photo that makes it "good" or "poor" in our eyes. An technical and an aesthetic judgement.

Bottom line, the technical and the aesthetic judements are both valid, it would be useful to know however which of these criteria a poor rating was based on.

Maybe, rather tha a new scale of 20 as was suggested, two rating criterea of 10 points each would be nice.
Technical assesment and Aesthetic assesment. That way the photographer could see that if his work was good in one area and weak in the other.

Any photograph that is in one of the competitions should be up for ratings automatically.

For images in other galleries why not let the person uploading decide whether he/she would like to have ratings and comments or not? I have seen similar systems on other blogs.

Having said this all the "excellent" pictures on her makes one a bit tired, especially when it is yet another straight macro of a flower centre, almost as hackneyed on this site as the Lone Tree shot that is done to death in so many magazines.

how do i set a darn avatar on this board? i'd like to put up a picture

I have to say, I would prefer some sort of rating system to be kept. I never took offence of a lower rating, I do recognise that I have much progress to make (I do get disapointed sometime) This is one of the reason I post here: getting the point of vue of other photographer on my picture should help me to progress.

I think the biggest problem we have is that people tend to be too nice. We are talking about expanding the range of the marks, but out of the ten marks we can give, we only use four.... I would also like to see more criticisum made. Some of my pictures have not been rated nor commented. I can only imagine that is because people tend not to like them. I would like to know what it is that is putting them off. I do recognise that it is sometime difficult to comment on picture we like, so it can be even harder on picture we dont like.

When alfiebasher joinned this site, he started by making lots of harsh comments. Some people took offence, and I can understand that, but I could also see that he always had a point. Even a very beautiful picture can have a flaw. Making the photographer aware of that flaw can only help him to improve, that is why why I think we need more harsh comment, on the condition that they are constructive though. If it ok to say "Nice shot!", i don't think that leave a coment that would just say "crap shot!" would be acceptable. Critisum is good when it is constructive.

A flaw that I notice in the rating system, it's that there seems to be a lemmings effect. Once someone gave a note, the following tend to be identicals. Maybe the note given should be shown only to the photographer?

Hi, y'all. I'm coming into this discussion late, and there's a good chance people will have thought this subject done, but oh well, it's free to comment, so I am.

Truth: most people don't want to be seen as mean, and therefore, as others have said, we tend to grade nice.

As my training dealing with people with developmental disabilities has taught me, it's possible to say disappointing things in an uplifting way. It takes a little more thought, though. I guess it's up to each of us as individuals to value ourselves enough to make that effort. If we don't give a crap how others view us, well...

I, for one, will begin to make comments on some of the lesser-commented pics. If I have time. I'm sure we've all had shots not commented on. I have, and know it's kind of a downer. However, I also know that it takes a lot of time just to open and look at all the pics, longer if you don't have broadband. Sometimes we pass on commenting simply because we lack the time.

Getting back to the point of the discussion, I vote to keep the number system. It's a measure of my emotional responce, and comments are more technical (usually).

--Chris

The problem is with the raters not the system. Why not let people choose whether to allow comments and scores as Kurt says above?