Panasonic is proud to introduce the 8-Megapixel, 12x optical zoom¡¡(equivalent to 35mm to 420mm on a 35mm film camera) LUMIX DMC-FZ30 inheriting MEGA O.I.S. (Optical Image Stabilizer) as an up-and-comer to its creative super zoom FZ double-digit line. The DMC-FZ20, released in 2004, has been internationally acclaimed for meeting the needs of the market by realizing the ideals of users.
The 12x optical zoom LEICA DC VARIO-ELMARIT Lens, which has been handed down since the first launch of the FZ series, underwent further development to provide even more superb picture rendering. The other key feature, the Optical Image Stabilizer, MEGA O.I.S. is deservedly continued as Panasonic advanced the theory that it should be standard in all digital still cameras. The newly incorporated Extra Optical Zoom extends the zoom ratio by using the center part of the high resolution CCD, to achieve 15.3x for 5-Megapixel and 19.1x for 3-Megapixel images with minimal deterioration.
Along with CCD size and total effective pixels, the FZ30 also has enhanced its excellence in other features: addition of a manual zoom ring to the manual focus ring, which was very popular in the FZ20; easy-to-see free-angle LCD; and adjustable dials for the aperture and shutter speed controls. Both the LCD and EVF have had their resolution increased by about 180%, offering a sharp, clear view. All these complete the FZ30 in the resulting picture quality and operationality.
The newly developed 8-Megapixel CCD is compatible with the 9-pixel mixed readout¡¡method, so now moving pictures with dramatically increased brightness can be recorded at 30 fps in VGA size, previously only recordable in QVGA. This technology is used for the LCD monitoring to provide a bright and clear view so subjects can be seen easily, even in low-light situations.
Taking advantage of these outstanding features, the LX1 incorporates the high speed, high quality image processing LSI the Venus Engine II. It boasts quick responsiveness that realizes the best-in-class level release time lag of 0.01 sec. Adopting a non-collapsible lens has substantially reduced startup time from about 5 sec to 0.97 sec. AF time in 1-point high-speed AF has been dramatically reduced to a quarter the level* of that of the previous DMC-FZ20.
Furthermore, by adopting a newly developed lithium-ion battery with a capacity increased from 680 mAh to 730 mAh, the FZ30 realizes the shooting of approx. 280** images for one charging.
The LUMIX DMC-FZ30 has the flawless basic specifications to fuel the spark of imagination in high-end users and is destined to join the Panasonic LUMIX high-end model lineup.
* Panasonic in-house comparison with DMC-FZ20 at the tele-end.
** Based on the CIPA standard.
1. 8-Megapixel CCD and 12x optical zoom LEICA DC Lens. The DMC-FZ30 includes an 8-Megapixel high resolution CCD and a newly developed LEICA DC VARIO-ELMARIT 12x optical zoom (equivalent to 35 mm to 420 mm with a 35 mm film camera) lens. The combination of 3 aspherical lenses and 1 ED lens generates high optical performance while preserving the compactness of the unit. The Extra Optical Zoom, made possible by using the center part of 8-megapixel high resolution CCD, further extends the powerful 12x optical zoom when less than 8-Megapixel resolution is selected. The zoom ratio can be extended to 15.3x for 5-Megapixel and 19.1x for the 3-Megapixel image recording. Zoom range can be extended in total to a remarkable 76.5x (equivalent to 35 mm to 2677 mm on a 35mm film camera) when combined with 4x digital zoom, even if the shooting range is as short as 2m.
2. Optical image stabilizing system MEGA O.I.S. and High-speed High quality Image Processing LSI Venus Engine II
What we strongly believe indispensable for every camera, especially for a high-magnification models susceptible to vibration, is MEGA O.I.S.(Optical Image Stabilizer). MEGA O.I.S. has been incorporated in all FZ series since its first launch and is now with all LUMIX lineup released in this year. Every slight hand-shake movement is detected accurately with the sampling frequency at 4,000 times per second and will be compensated to render clear, sharp images. This premier feature is subsumed with 2 selectable modes. In ¡°Mode 1¡±, the O.I.S. lens continuously compensates vibration, and ¡°Mode 2¡±,¡¡the O.I.S. lens suppresses hand-shake only at the moment the shutter button is pressed. In this mode, the lens can move in all directions at the moment to maximize its effect and higher-resolution image can be taken by capturing the image as close as to the center of the lens. Consequently, even without using a tripod, it allows you to reduce the shutter speed more than three steps compared to the conventional cameras without O.I.S., while assuring clear images. Its outstanding effects will be appreciated in all situations easily spoiled by hand-shake, especially telephoto, low light, and macro shots.
For the brain of the camera, high-speed high-quality image processing LSI Venus Engine II is incorporated to render clear images in detail, compensating the color aberration at the edges subject to occur especially in the telephoto shots. It also compensates for vignetting and generates bright image in every detail. This engine boast its high performance resulting in the best-in-class level release time lag of 0.01* sec helping to realize stress-free operation.
* Not including the time for AF.
3. Ring-operated manual focus and manual zoom Two exclusive rings on the lens barrel of the FZ30 provide manual control of zooming and focusing, allowing quick and fine control that cannot be achieved with button operation. This feature will be highly valued by high-end users not only for its precise controllability but also for the feeling of manual operation. MF, AF and Macro AF can be selectable with a switch located by the lens. Using MF you can zoom in the screen on the subject to focus easily. The magnified area is freely movable to realize unconfined framing, which is especially necessary when the camera is on a tripod.
Shutter speed and aperture controls are very easy and quick to adjust with the dials for them. The shutter speed can be selectable from 1/2000 to 60 sec, and the aperture from F2.8 to F11, to meet wider ranging shooting conditions. The AE lock button, a new control, is convenient for taking multiple shots at the same exposure setting regardless of the color of a subject.
¡¡
4. High resolution free style LCD and EVF
The free-angle LCD is angle-adjustable to support comfortable shooting even in high- and low-angle shooting positions. With resolution increased by 180% compared to the FZ20, both LCD and EVF boast 235 k pixels, which realizes more comfortable operation when checking points such as the focus of details. Also, real time histogram and composition guidelines are displayed over the image on both the LCD or EVF. The high-resolution LCD and EVF allow the display of images even in tiny thumbnail size. Playback of 9, 16 or 25 is possible on a multi-split screen in addition to the normal 1 frame playback. This helps you to search for the image you want out of a number stored on the SD Memory Card, even the images are in bulk. The swivel LCD can be stored with the LCD surface on the inside to prevent scratching and damage.
5. Faster AF and enhanced options
The AF method can be selected according to the shooting situation: 9-point, 3-point high speed, 1-point high speed, 1-point normal speed and Spot. In the newly incorporated 1-point high speed AF,¡¡AF time has been dramatically reduced to a quarter the level* of the previous DMC-FZ20 thanks to the increased sampling frequency. Although screen-freeze in high-speed AF is now minimized, to take pictures of fast-moving subjects you can select 1 point normal-speed AF, which does not have any screen-freeze while focusing.
While using 1-point AF, you can specify a point out of 9 AF points. You can thereby enjoy free framing shooting even with the subject not at the center.
*Panasonic in-house comparison with DMC-FZ20 at the tele-end.
6. Quick and smart operationality
The startup time of the FZ30 has been substantially reduced to only 0.97 sec compared to the previous FZ20, which took about 5 sec.
Thanks to the multi-task image processing of the Venus Engine II, response has also been accelerated, resulting in the best-in-class level release time lag of approx. 0.01 sec for achieving more stress-free operation.
Consecutive shooting performance is also exceptional, providing shooting at 3 frames/second at full resolution. The Unlimited Consecutive Shooting function** allows limit-free consecutive shooting up to the capacity of the SD memory card. Burst shooting mode can be¡¡instantly activated with the independent button.
* Not including the time for AF.
** The speed of the consecutive shooting varies depending on the SD memory card.
7. Higher quality moving images
A newly incorporated CCD that adopts a 9-pixel mixed readout method makes it possible to record beautiful full-size movies at 30 fps in VGA size, only possible in QVGA size with the FZ20. The new CCD provides much more luminous signals, enhancing the picture quality not only in size but also in the brightness level, while also suppressing moir¨¦s.
Full advantage is taken of this by increasing the brightness of both the LCD and EVF when monitoring the taking of still images. This is especially effective in providing a clear view in low-light situations.
8. Easier and more comfortable operationality
By adopting a newly developed lithium-ion battery with a capacity increased from 680 mAh to 730 mAh, the FZ30 realizes the shooting of approx. 280* images for one charging.
In addition to the conventional ProgramAE, FZ30 is equipped with Auto mode, which caters for the entry level users. A total of 14 scene modes including 5 new modes Baby, Soft Skin, Food, Starry Sky and Candle, helps you to take beautiful images easily in wide-ranging situations. Still it is easy to select the one out of them thanks to the newly installed Scene Mode Help Screen that shows the description of each mode and the knack for shooting of each scene and helps users to take beautiful image easily.
Auto angle detection records whether an image was taken horizontally or vertically. This ensures that when playing back on the LCD monitor and displaying images on your TV or on a PC using included software, vertical images are automatically displayed vertically and horizontal images are automatically displayed horizontally. You can still view images in its full size by displaying conventionally.
The external design has also been reworked to move the doors of the battery and SD Memory Card so you can change either of them even when the camera is on a tripod.
*Based on the CIPA standard.
9. Expandability ¨C the proof of a true high end camera
The conversion lens newly developed for the FZ30 is dramatically reduced in both size and weight while enhancing its capability realizing 1.7x (714mm on a 35mm film camera) for a tele conversion lens and 0.7x (24.5mm on a 35mm film camera) for a wide conversion lens. Equipped with a hot shoe, an external flash can be fitted when necessary. The recordable image format is either RAW, TIFF, or JPEG (Fine or Standard). Expandability is the proof of a real high end camera, which is what the DMC-FZ30 also boasts.
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A great job by Panasonic! Hope the images are as good. I have a FZ 20 and was bugged by its slow start up time. Make it available earlier than September!
Dr Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 12:31am on Thursday, July 21, 2005
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All these improvements that Panasonic made to the new model FZ-30 were necessary, since FZ-20 -against its true positive marks- was "back" from the other competitors... With the new camera will be far ahead, leading all serious amateurs + professionals! We look for ...September '05
Sotirios Athanasiadis at 09:00am on Thursday, July 21, 2005
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What a stunner - the FZ30! Can't wait to get one! I own both the LC1 (just for sheer feel of a solid camera) and the FZ1, while my younger brother and fellow author owns the FZ20. All are excellent cameras. Now I would love to get the FZ30 as an all-round travel and conference camera!
Dr Seamus Phan at 04:55pm on Thursday, July 21, 2005
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well samsung and konica better move fast as this will be an interesting camera minolta has to come out with 18x zoom like 28-500mm zoom. lots of speculations thanks guido
guy villeneuve at 10:23pm on Thursday, July 21, 2005
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too bad evething is plastic...
guy villeneuve at 10:24pm on Thursday, July 21, 2005
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wow, it is the greatest camera of the year!!and a do-it-all one, too.can Cannon do that? canm Sony?
saberZou at 08:14am on Saturday, July 23, 2005
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The only fault with the FZ20 for me was the abysmal performance of the lcd and evf in low light. Even with the AF assist it is still very much a point and hope, even my canon A60 has a better lcd!!! I hope the fz30 is much, much better.
Norman Somerville at 11:35am on Sunday, July 24, 2005
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2nd comment view = Next to the info given by PhotographyBlog, I went to the Panasonic.jp site of Lumix, where I downloaded (and studied) the new full specification details: well, the only point that FZ30 is back, is the maximum F:3,7 stop diaphragm at 12x upper end of the Leica Lens (instead the stable f:2,8 aperture of DZ20)...
Sotirios Athanasiadis at 08:44am on Monday, July 25, 2005
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Come on Panasonic , show us the pics by this camera!
Dr Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 01:06pm on Monday, July 25, 2005
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This camera will be perhaps my next buy, but I have a bit of reserve. I am bit concerned of the reported 8mp capabilities on a standard CCD sensor, a sensor which has showed its limitations even on 5mp cameras such as The Sony DSC-H1 and the Canon S2IS (even though they are very good cameras. Check the samples made by a pre-production model http://www.dpreview.com/articles/panasonicfz30/page5.asp
Some people have pointed out that this cameras has produced an atrocious level of noise even on modest ISO settings... I guess I will have to wait for the review before buying, even though the specs of this camera make it very tempting
Matthew Vella at 03:13pm on Monday, August 01, 2005
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The snaps seem pretty good but we need to see pics at higher iso setttings. I am also waiting to see Samsung's pro 815 to see if it lives to its clamis
Dr Krishna Raman
chennai India
Dr Krishna Raman at 11:52pm on Monday, August 01, 2005
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We need pics at higher iso settings. I am also waiting for sample pics of Samsung's pro 815 to see its quality.
Dr Krishna Raman
Chennai India
Dr Krishna Raman at 11:54pm on Monday, August 01, 2005
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Some more pics.
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz30-review/gallery.shtml
Gary Hughes at 06:44pm on Thursday, August 11, 2005
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PANASONIC has abandonned f2.8 all the way too bad it was their key note.my concern also what minolta has up its sleeve as they are leaders in the type of camera. but i must say PANASONIC will have a SLR in cooperation with OLYMPUS lots of good things to come thank guido
guy villeneuve at 06:54pm on Thursday, August 11, 2005
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"PANASONIC has abandonned f2.8 all the way"
But they have done so in order to give us a larger sensor, which is a fair trade-off. The cost for a f/2.8 constant zoom lens would have pushed the camera beyond that of a DSLR.
phule at 07:00pm on Thursday, August 11, 2005
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Wow, I can't wait to get back on the moon with this one. A beautiful x12 Leica Optical Zoom, improved luminance on the screen, faster start up and many little things that make it brilliant. Its one small step for man...
Neil Armstrong at 10:27pm on Thursday, August 11, 2005
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Well as the dcresource as admitted that it their FZ30 review is a production model, then the pics can be accepted but we still need pics at higher iso
Dr Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 01:03am on Friday, August 12, 2005
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The KonicaMinolta A2 has an EVF with over 900,000 pixels (!!), so it CAN get a lot better than 235,000 pixels. Also, the KM A2 and A200 have been discontinued (both had some great features, such as virtually no chromatic aberration with the A200) -- I'm hoping for a new model from KM, with the best features of their past models, plus the latest up-tweaks. Anyone hear anything yet?
The FZ30 extended OPTICAL zoom, using the center of the CCD, is a really neat trick!
Ryan S at 07:23pm on Tuesday, August 16, 2005
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The pics at iso 200 are poor. I was betting on this camera but having seen the results will wait for Samsung pro 815. I dont think this camera will sell much.
Dr Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 09:56am on Friday, August 19, 2005
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Dear Dr Krishna Raman, your last comment refers to bad results, with what ? This camera FZ30 isn't available yet ? Are you talking about the Konica Minolta or what? Do you know what date this camera is available ?
Neil Armstrong at 12:15pm on Friday, August 19, 2005
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Oops! I apoligize. Mr Neil, pl see the results of the Lumix Fz30 at dcresource.com.
The pics at iso 200 are not great- they are full of noise. One would expect noise at iso 400 and above but not at iso 200. Pl let me know your thoughts after you read the review of Lumix Fz30 and seeing the pics. The camera is expected to be released in Sept.
Thanks
Dr Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 04:07pm on Friday, August 19, 2005
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The Samsung Pro815 looks like a loser. Any prosumer type camera today without some sort of image stabilization is obsolete (in my opinion), ESPECIALLY one with a 420mm equivalent lens. They are trying to compensate by hyping "high speed shooting", which just ups the shutter speed and opens the aperture, which highly limits shooting alternatives. Plus a non-articulating LCD -- yes it's big -- big deal. And the Pro815 appears to be as big as an SLR, so why not get an SLR? It looks like a poorly conceived cross between a prosumer type all-in-one and an SLR, but not hitting the mark at either. Samsung products always seem to be just short of what they should be. The possible exception being their DLP rear projection TV, which is soon to be obsolete technoloy also.
Still hoping to hear about a new KonicaMinolta model, as they are the current leader in the prosumer all-in-one type (even beating out Canon with their offerings ... in my opinion).
Ryan S at 06:57pm on Saturday, August 20, 2005
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Dr Krishna Raman, I'm not sure which pictures you are talking about, can you give me a hyper link to see them the ISO200. So, what camera model does tickles your fancy if this one doesn't do it for ya ? As regards the faster shutter speed from Samsung (Mentioned by Ryan), I did read an article in a Camera Magazine which made the point that increased shutter speed would have better results depending on light level and zoom (some mathmatical equation) but at lower levels I'm sure that Image Stabilization is a winner. You would need to do some tests with both cameras side by side.
Neil Armstrong at 08:37am on Sunday, August 21, 2005
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Neil
Here is one link for all snaps of FZ30.
http://dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz30-review/gallery.shtml
The other link below is for the night shots at diff isos.
http://dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_fz30-review/index.shtml
BTW I just returned after testing the Canon digital rebel. Its very good!
regds
Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 11:09am on Sunday, August 21, 2005
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Well Doctor, that link is very informative (thanks). I need to spend alot more time studying and absorbing all of the information. Its hard to compare those ISO pictures on a PC screen. I can only take on board the points that are made. I think the ISO noise only deteriorates when there is low light, which you would expect anyway. I don't think it wouldn't worry me, but I would be interested in seeing pictures that are direct comparisons from competing cameras. However, what is important to me is that I do like taking indoor photos with natural light (no flash) so do you think this is the right camera for that? After all, we can now get ISO 1600 cameras but surely the end result will be crap photos. Similarly digital zoom (as opposed to optical) to me, is a completely useless function as the pictures are always scrapped immediately.
Neil Armstrong at 12:51pm on Sunday, August 21, 2005
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Neil
If you intend to avoid flash then it appears to me its better to wait to see more reviews. I like to avoid flash too. I have a sony 828 which takes great indoor pics sans flash with little noise. If your indoor pics are to be after dusk, then FZ30 may not be a good choice. On the other hand if its daytime with good ambient indoor lighting , it may work. The best choice is to wait and do a hands on test in some shop if possible. Carrying a tripod to avoid flash may not always be practical!
Most of these cameras give some and we lose some. I wonder why those guys cant ask users opinion before formulating cameras. They want the market share and nee to release products quickly!
Have you seen the canon rebel xt's night shots? here is the link.
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/canon/digital_rebel_xt-review/index.shtml
regds
Dr Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 02:44pm on Sunday, August 21, 2005
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Doctor, I took at a look at the Canon and it made me realise what I would lose if I went down the DSLR route. No video, Image Stabilization, non extending x12 zoom, 2 inch pivot LCD viewfinder. (DSLR only let you see picytures after they are taken not during). I think the next generation Panasonic will have 16:9 aspect ratio (see Panasonic LX-1 Compact) and ISO1600 then it would be pretty unbeatable. I think all of these features are more important than a minimal difference in photo quality at the low light end of the spectrum and even then I'm not so sure that a £500 DSLR can beat the FZ30. Maybe they will soon but when we put the photos side by side, will we be able to tell the difference ?
Neil Armstrong at 03:59pm on Sunday, August 21, 2005
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I agree with you Neil on your comments. Have you seen this kodak new release?
http://steves-digicams.com/pr/kodak_08022005_p880-p850_pr.html
Seems we have a war ! I saw the Lx1 though I could not get pics?
Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 11:31pm on Sunday, August 21, 2005
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Hmmm, that looks good doesn't it ? I like the 24mm wide angle and the ISO 1600 but that makes it a x5 zoom. With the FZ30 One of he things I am looking forward to is the x12 zoom and I guess you can interchange with a wide angle lens if you want to or panoramic shots that you stick together afterwards. I saw that there are now a couple of outlets taking orders for the FZ30 due in UK on 25th September with the LX1 due a few days earlier. Quite honestly, I'd like to buy both Panasonics but I don't think my Mrs would be too pleased!
Neil Armstrong at 09:01am on Monday, August 22, 2005
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Ha Ha! My wife is not pleased too!! she says we guys are jobless!
Dr Krishna Raman at 09:11am on Monday, August 22, 2005
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After reading reviews about noice of this camera that allow it only to produce snap shot images - it should not sell - it will as lots of people will buy the hipe - I am looking at the Samsung Pro 815. It strive to reduce noice and to reduce lens problems not cover them up with programing - that is bull - especially when edge effects are wanted at times. Lens and processors should be good and not REQUIRE software to make them useable.
NightHawk at 02:11pm on Sunday, August 28, 2005
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Boy now I am confused the Samsung Pro 815 is another poor choice. Great lens and processor but No image stabilization - what were they thinking????? Panasonic did not deal with the noise and used software to fix lens problems - both suck in my book. Samsung has a great processor and lens and leave off image stabilization - I wonder if either company can read. Well I guess I am back to the Minolta A200 (to replace one that was stolen). Like it but it is really too small for my hands. But at least they did not leave out major peices of the puzzle like both Panasonic and Samsung.
NightHawk at 06:45pm on Sunday, August 28, 2005
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I was really looking forward to FZ30, but now that it appears to be suffering all these optical drawbacks (noise and that kind of thing), what should I consider buying? Any advice? Thanks in advance.
Arturas at 08:53pm on Monday, August 29, 2005
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It doesn/t bother me if software enhances the output, I'm sure you can switch to manual or RAW if you want to be creative. What lens problem are you talking about Nighthawk ? Its a waste of time having a x12 lens without Image Stabilization so forget the Samsung job. We need to get hold of an fz30 before we can critise its noise levels.
Neil Armstrong at 11:25pm on Monday, August 29, 2005
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sorry bad spelling... I mean CRITICISE
Neil Armstrong at 11:28pm on Monday, August 29, 2005
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Neil
pl see this reply from Jeff at dcresource.com Re: query on review of Lumix Fz30
From: Jeff Keller <jakeller@pair.com>
To: Dr Krishna Raman <mediyoga@touchtelindia.net>
Date: Aug 22 2005 - 8:41pm
"There will be noise in daylight too, though it may be less noticeable than my indoor and night shots"
Dr Krishna Raman at 11:43pm on Monday, August 29, 2005
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From NightHawk - we read the review - when a reviewer shows that the noise is so bad that you can only make snap shot size images without spending a 60 sec. per image to make them usable that is a problem since I shoot thousands images. I do not want to waste time cleaning-up pics for noise due which resulted due to a poor camera designed. I am buying a 8mp to make 18x24 prints not snap shots. I do care what software does to my image as I am a creative photographer. The image should stand on its own. Some people downplay image stabilization and say that Samsung get by it. Unless I am all wet their arguement is totally flawed. IS is for low light situation where shutter speed cannot be high speed. I love the freedom of not having to use a tripod any more than I have to. The reason that I want a 12X digcam is that I do not want to have to change lens frequently. I will forgo image quality for that as I may capture more images. The Kodack 880 plannly lacks a long enough telephoto. the KM A200 is the only one I am considering now - Is there something better out there - want to buy a camera by the end of the month. Please help!!!
NightHawk at 04:44am on Tuesday, August 30, 2005
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From NightHawk - what i meant about forgoing image quality is that I will settle for digcam quality versus DSLR. I want to buy a 8mp by the end of Sept. (end of next month - smiles) Please help me. Each time I find a promising camera I find a major flaw.
NightHawk at 04:52am on Tuesday, August 30, 2005
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Any reason that you want to avoid a DSLR? I have faced problems of some sort ( slow start speed, or no af lamp or some other with all digicams). Every time I buy a camera something is not perfect. Which is why I am tempted to go for a Rebel xt .
regds
Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 07:00am on Tuesday, August 30, 2005
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Krishna - I have had the same temptation to get a Rebel st. But the main reason was it doubled the cost at least for the same zoom range and image stabilization. Plus I would have to change lens and pack lens around.
But, I did not understand until recently that DSLRs were so good at shooting at high ISOs like 1600. Thus making image stabilization less of a requirement. It also seemed that there was a gap between Cannon IS lens 18-50ish then 70 - 200 ish (the 70 - 200 lens costing and weighing up to three times that of a complete digcam). I just wish minolta would put a DSLR processor in a camera with its image stabilization sytem - they probably have but not a 8mp and maybe I would be better off without a 8mp. Now Canons IS lens look like the wrong way to go in light of KM idea or at least to costly for me.
NightHawk at 08:36am on Tuesday, August 30, 2005
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If you look at the link on post No.28 it refers to two Kodak jobs. One is 5mp (x12 optical) and the other is 8mp(x4 optical) both with Image Stabilization. These may suit your purpose.
It made me wonder, what technical factor actually causes noise ? Is it too many pixels? Is it slower shutter speed ? Or fast ISO ? Why is a DSLR better at low light ? Why is Kodak going down to 5mp when the zoom goes up to x12 ?
Neil Armstrong (Its one small step for man..)
Neil Armstrong at 09:04am on Tuesday, August 30, 2005
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I agree that the weight of the 70-210 is too heavy. I am unable to make up my mind too as the cost of investment goes higher. However these guys ( up to now) have not provided us cost effective stuff. It maybe worth waiting for a few months till christmas maybe?
see this link to a pic with Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H1
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/H1/FULLRES/H1HOUSEWBM.HTM
Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 01:46pm on Tuesday, August 30, 2005
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See this link to a pic from nikon D50
Krishna Raman
http://steves-digicams.com/2005_reviews/d50/samples/DSC_0136_NEF.JPG
Dr Krishna Raman at 02:32pm on Tuesday, August 30, 2005
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It seem to me is that many companies try to make a chip do to much and instead of using a new and larger chip they use a chip that just cannot handle 8mp. The DSLR use a totally different type of chip (eye). I do not understand Kodack either (sorta like Panasonic, Samsung, and Canon of different matters). A 4X zoom is not enough for my need and it is not a true 4 power (4 power would be 200 mm - it just zooms 4 times. Lots of companies are going down to 5 to 6 mp and if that actually improves image quality over a 8mp maybe I should go there. I will take another look at the Nikon and see if the price and features work for me. I still have a sony F707 and my second lust was for a 828 so I will check out sony again.
NightHawk at 05:55pm on Tuesday, August 30, 2005
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Would the following "solution" work - or I am totally wet behind the ears. Could you set the MP setting in the camera only to take pictures at 5MP whenever you are taking pictures above 100 ISO? I understand you would lose image detail with the 3MP drop, but would you end up with a picture that has less noise?
Karmann Ghia at 10:48pm on Tuesday, August 30, 2005
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Humm - Can anyone answer Karmann's question #45? I have thought about that also. Plus it there a good way to compare quality of a image based on techical data (not just viasual) so you could determine how a great 3mp with a great lens compared to a 5mp - 6mp 7mp 8mp. I am starting to understand that you cannot pick a camera by the stated mp. The 8mp Panasonic is no better than a good 5mp or a great 3mp. A test to me would be to print actual images at different settings (20"X30" prints) of standard images under differnt lighting and ISO. Then take 4X5 sections of the above print and look at them at intensily. comparing image files is good but seldom do they do it correctly (a lot of times they compare apples and oranges - downloads sizes vary when they should be the same for comparison purposes). Nikons D50 and D70 are not 8mp and there is no lens for a DSLR that is anything like the best ones for a digcam. That is there is not a F2.4 -2.8 to F3.7 AF lens that zooms from WA (24-35mm) to telo (200-400mm). That would weigh under a ton. Plus I wish then added 1in to the width of a KM A200. The KM A200 may be my pick would just have to by a WA an TELO conversion len and still not have to get a pack mule to carry it.
NightHawk at 01:24am on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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Neil and NIghthawk
Pl see this link
regds
Krishna Raman
http://www.letsgodigital.org/html/review/fujifilm/finepix/fuji_s9500_s9000_EN1.html
Dr Krishna Raman at 09:54am on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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Oh well done Krishna, that looks like the key to Nighthawks problems. They seem to have made a breakthrough that concentrates on this noise/large print/low light area. It goes up to ISO1600 too ! Going up to 9mp...does that cause any quality drop off else where I wonder ? You lose a bit on the zoom magnification but the rest of the spec looks good.
Neil Armstrong (..its one giant leap for mankind)
Neil Armstrong at 10:52am on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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Looks like the end of my probs hopefully! I had a Fuji fine pix 4900 and the only problem was that during zooming the focus would be awry. I hope the present generations will not have that problem. Looks like this is to be available this month. I will search for reviews
Dr Krishna Raman at 11:58am on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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http://steves-digicams.com/pr/fuji_07282005_s9000_pr.html
neil and nighthawk
see this too looks like there is no noise even at 1600 iso!!!!
Dr Krishna Raman at 12:04pm on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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http://www.photographyblog.com/index.php/weblog/comments/6903/
one more link to nice pics by Fuji 9000 posted by Birdie
Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 01:19pm on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/digital/cameras/s9500/index.php?lpage=/digital/cameras/range.php#top
Neil and Nighthawk
see this too the best links to fuji 9000 sample pics I have seen so far seems a pretty good buy
Dr Krishna Raman at 03:02pm on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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Thanks Krishna!!!! You found me my new love/lust - smiles - The makers do not claim no noise at 1600 ISO - if they did I would laugh at them. But Fuji S9500 seem to have made the best camera for my needs. It does not have Image Stabilization but the ability to shoot at 400 ISO versus 50 - 100 without much noise truly works for me. Time will tell if the camera and lens are good - with the specs. 18X24 prints are possible at 150 res. 9mp helps as with 8mp were at about 7 percent less res for that print size (145 at 9mp vs 136 at 8mp). a 6 power lens (10x) nice
NightHawk at 03:49pm on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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No more nightmares for nighthawk. The Fuji is tempting. At the moment, for me, I'm still leaning towards the FZ30, I particularly want that extra extra zoom and Image Stabilization and a bigger, clearer, twisting LCD. I am not going to be printing large but I am gonna be taking candid pictures indoors without flash. I just wonder if that noise factor is really gonna be that much of a problem seeing as I am not printing large. I note that in Video mode the S9500 allows the zoom to be used, I can't see that mentioned on the FZ30. The FZ30 lens is also non extending (all done internally) (The FZ20 and the S9500 physically extend, is non extending a backward step ?). Something that all these type of cameras lack is Macro mode. I would really miss that. I would also like a 16:9 aspect ratio...looks like I will still have to buy that Lumix LX-1 as well as the FZ30.
Neil Armstrong at 04:51pm on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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The FZ30 was a nice idea but not in application. The FZ30 has a 11% larger zoom range (12 vs 10.7) but has 7% less pixels then the 9mp Fuji (zoom advantage down to 4%)and the pixels of the FZ30 are far less effective pixels due to the noise. Therefore the Fuji should have a far better effective zoom range. Quality and number of pixels = size = zoom.
Image Stabilization should be more effective in the Fuji as well (as it shoots a far higher ISO0 without noise). Image Stabilization just lets you shoot at lower shutter speeds (a factor of 3 or so) and the Fuji should be able to stabilize the image by a frator of 4 to 16. So at least as good to several times better than FZ30 - (ISO of 100 usable for the FZ30 vs 400-1600 for the Fuji).
Neil due not get lost in hipe - I feel what you need to look at is effective zoom and image stabilization. Fuji to me is the winner hands down. Shooting without flash try ISO 1600 versus 100. Plus, the Fuji has a wider angle lens 28 versus 35 - (20% better) so that is also better for candid inside pics than the FZ30. And with more pixels and less noise should be better at large enlargements (true extra extra zoom) Highly magnified noise is of no use to me effective enlargement afforded by quality pixels is.
So do the Math. It seems the FZ30 will still sell due to all the hipe and then so many will find the 18x24 prints or extra extra long zooms are not possible do yo image noise.
NightHawk at 09:52pm on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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http://www.fujifilm.co.uk/digital/cameras/s9500/index.php?lpage=/digital/cameras/range.php#top
WOW - I have done down to the pixel editting on 5mp and 8mp cameras but WOW the pixel size in the 9mp Fuji s9500 are amazingly small. Noise at 1600 what noise? Ablility to zoom after you capture the pic is amazing - I will not be sad by missing a optical zoom or 1.3 X when I can effectively digital zoom several times greater than that especially in no flash and low shutter speed applications (high ISOs) So where is the flaw ! I have not seen anything wrong. Plus AA batteries versus $50 battery packs $50 - $150 chargers (sony) is a nice touch.
NightHawk at 10:14pm on Wednesday, August 31, 2005
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I agree with Nighthawk. Neil, remember the noise levels in fuji are absaent till iso 800 or at least very very useable. IN FZ30 this is not so. More over we have a single lens here with a good zoom preventing dust in sensors. I am sure you would have found the pics awseome
Krishna Raman
Dr Krishna Raman at 12:00am on Thursday, September 01, 2005
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I am listening to you guys and I am beginning to agree. The spec of the Fuji S9500 and the results are currently in its favour. I think now we need to get photos of the same subject from both of them at different times of the day, side by side, and see if anyone can spot the difference. I expect what you would find is that the FZ30 can zoom more witha sharper image and the S9500 would show slightly less noise on a night time shot thats printed large. Its a difficult decision already but are there any more choices out there ? What about KM ?
Neil Armstrong at 09:44am on Thursday, September 01, 2005
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KM does not have a hot shoe if I am right? we need many things- 5 MP would do, good zoom, fast start up, hot shoe , and low noise and what else?
Dr Krishna Raman at 11:49am on Thursday, September 01, 2005
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The KM A200 has a hot shoe it just has it covered with a plastic shoe cap. I have used a A200 and loved it (shot over a thousand shots with it without a flash). It was stolen and I started looking for a replacement - by the way if you get a A200 - I have a flash, an extra battery, and two chargers for cheap - smiles. The A200 was just too small in my hands and was just on the verge of producing 18x24 prints - the s9000 ups the zoom and image quality.
NightHawk at 01:08pm on Thursday, September 01, 2005
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I see that the S9500 is already available to order here. The best UK price is £450 but it was also available cheaper from Hong Kong on Ebay. Its tempting but I wanna wait a bit longer to see what is said. I want to buy a camera to take to Naples in a couple of weeks time. Maybe it will be cheaper over there ?
Neil Armstrong at 01:17pm on Thursday, September 01, 2005
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Can you send me a link to the shop? thanks i think this is good stuff!!
Dr Krishna Raman at 03:25pm on Thursday, September 01, 2005
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Here is the link to the MX2 shop that is selling the S9500:
http://www.mx2.co.uk/default.asp?part=S9500
Neil Armstrong at 04:00pm on Thursday, September 01, 2005
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Neil - I am in US and will probably never travel to Hong Kong or Naples (by the way wish you a great trip). So if I got a camera from Hong Kong on Ebay - I would not have any kind or warantee right?????? I am clueless
NightHawk at 09:34pm on Thursday, September 01, 2005
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Nighthawk, your best bet is to buy from Amazon.Com its a good price at $699 (its called s9000 in U.S and cheaper than UK). If you buy on ebay you will have to pay import duty etc. I don't know if you get warranty but I would suggest that its not a good route to go. By the way, my last post was modified, I just put the link, I didn't add that incorrect sentence...you need eyes like a hawk eh ? Are you gonna get one then ? I would really like to know if it lives up to expectations.
Neil Armstrong at 11:17pm on Thursday, September 01, 2005
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Neil thanks for the info. I sorta wish Comp USA had it as their waranty rocks. Carry it in and get a free replacement - no questions asked - for 2 years. I plan on getting the camera alone and then living without much else - food, travel, entertainment. If I got a DSL I could only get a cheap body and kit lens. I do want a new tripod - I found this one with a two peice leg so only 3 adjustments versus 9 to get the legs full length. Benbo Trekker Mk2 Tripod Kit with Ballhead & Case - Supports 17 lb (8 kg)Http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=4822&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation but know nothing about Benbo tripods or pros and cons - Help!!! May sound silly but I do want to photograph a Grizzly - a friend saw one and then its tracks (14 in tracks about 4 foot to top of rump). I am looking for an assistant only requirements are that they want the bear to see them first or I can out run them (then do not have to do a foolish thing as try to outrun a Grizzly)
NightHawk at 02:29am on Friday, September 02, 2005
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The FZ30 has a 2 inch, 300,000 pixel LCD. The Fuji S9500 has a 1.8inch 118,000 pixels. It is one of the areas where Panasonic realised there needed to be improvements (when compared to FZ20). To be honest, even 2inch is too small. My wifes cheapo Olympus AZ1 has got 2.5inches and its wonderful to look at. How long will it be before the Digi-zooms give us 2.5inches ?
Neil Armstrong at 09:19am on Friday, September 02, 2005
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Neil thanks for the link. I visted the site but no luck. I have mailed Fuji to find out details. will post that when I get it
Dr Krishna Raman at 09:39am on Friday, September 02, 2005
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so what do you use the LCD for ? payback or framing? I only use the LCD for payback.
I save all my pics to a SmartDisk - FlashTrack with 80gb of storage - I go through to many pics to keep images on memory cards long (more than 30 min). The FlashTrack has a 3 inch screen but is slow as it uses full size files. But you can hook it up to a TV and operate it with remote control. I have thousand of pics on it and have used only 25% of its space (I durn a copy of all images to disk as soon as I get home). I would love if cameras came with a memory add on (like a battery pack that would act independantly - with a stick reader) say 10gb min. that would feed thumbnail (4 in high res) to a optional screen 4 inch high speed screen or full size to a TV. The images would directly save to the add on and you could view images with in on or off the camera. Now that would be sweet. It would free up the cameara for taking pics while others view images.
NightHawk at 05:14pm on Friday, September 02, 2005
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Going back to the Samsung Pro815, why don't we like this one guys? Its got a 3.5inch LCD, 8mp, 28-420 (x15) lens, ISO800, some sort of O.I.S *(called 'High Speed Mode') and a battery pack that will take 500 shots before re-charging. This even beats the Fuji S9500, what about noise levels at low light ?
Neil Armstrong at 11:22pm on Friday, September 02, 2005
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Hae you seen the images by the pro 815? another question- have you noticed any blurring of the object while you zoom? Pl let me know. I got a mail from the fuji guy who says that all cameras will blur while zooming! This is ridiculous as my 828 and fz30 do not blur at all! What is your experience? I had a fuji 4900 fine pix that would totally blur the object if zooming was done. I sold that stupid camera
Dr Krishna Raman at 11:55pm on Friday, September 02, 2005
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You are right the Samsumg Pro 815 deserves another look.
Blurr while zooming? You mean you take a pic while zooming and you expect it to be sharp? I would not say stupid camera. Please explain maybe I just do not understand you. Zooming is like moving - motion blurrs - so what are you wanting?
NightHawk at 02:08am on Saturday, September 03, 2005
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no no what I mean is while zooming ( while the zoom is in progress) , the view finder blurs the object totally. I cant even make out where the object is till I refocus and compose for the shot. Is this clear?
Dr Krishna Raman at 02:31am on Saturday, September 03, 2005
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Thank for informing me of my wrong assumpsion. The only time I have problems is when a image is out of focus. So is it do to movement or being out of focus and on what kind of zooming?
NightHawk at 03:47am on Saturday, September 03, 2005
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Krishna, blurred image while zooming sounds normal to me. What you are asking for is software that jumps from frame 1 to frame 50 instead of showing you all of the frames in between, don't forget that this isn't an SLR. Changing the subject:- The Pro815 is now top of my list. The main thing I don't like about the S9500 is the small screen, whether it be for composition or playback. Does any of the PC software allow one to upload photos/videos back on to the camera, so that you can take them to show your mum ?
Neil Armstrong at 09:31am on Saturday, September 03, 2005
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"Does any of the PC software allow one to upload photos/videos back on to the camera, so that you can take them to show your mum ?" No special or additional "software" needed. You must upload the files back up to the memory card in the same standard folders and sub folder as they were originally in. The memory card is just treated as a disk and no special "software" is required. For example: photo files in a sony would have to be upload as folder (DCIM) sudfolder (100MSDCF) then pic filer (DSC*****). The camera will not recognize the image files if they are not in the right folders. And make sure you do not add an addition subfolder as the camera will only look in the standard folders. If I do not make sence I will try again smiles. To detemine the folders just go to my computer and access the memory stick. To copy them back to a memory stick you can use my computer. Video are stored in separate folders from pics - folder names vary with camera
nightHawk at 10:09am on Saturday, September 03, 2005
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I am finding the quest for a zoom camera even more difficult. Nikon has now introduced a pocket compact with a x10 zoom. I've never seen this before in such a small job.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0509/05090103nikon_coolpixs4.asp
Neil Armstrong at 09:37am on Sunday, September 04, 2005
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I saw this Neil but all these cannot match higher end cameras. These guys give us so many choices and make us dodos. Ultimately we dont know what to do. I would like to focus on something like the fuji, ( panasonic is out for me dont like the noise) , waiting for sony to announce something which will defnitely happen before christmas.
Dr Krishna Raman at 11:16am on Sunday, September 04, 2005
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You are probably right but this is the problem now, there are so many cameras out there and it is hard to focus on what is really needed. My wife has a cheap Olympus AZ1 camera but it produces an end result which is comparable to anything. This is the first time they have got a x10 into a compact that fits in your pocket. I would be interested to see feedback about noise and low light usage and whether the quality can match the expensive and large digi-zooms we have been talking about. The 1.8 inch screen on the Fuji is too small for me but everything else is ok. The Samsung Pro815 has all round increased functionality. But would you be able to tell the difference if the photos from all these cameras were laid side by side ?
Neil Armstrong at 11:42am on Sunday, September 04, 2005
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Good points Neil. One has to judge the camera on what fills their needs the best and we do have options. To me a cammera has to be about 5 inches wide to feel like a camera vs a toy - personnel taste. In my hands (Med/large size), the KM A200 - is too small, awkward to use functions. I take too many pics to place a high importance about replaying them on the LCD of the camera - would want to view on a Storage device. Small size is nice and I do love to have a one use 35mm handy. Take more pics if the camera is with you vesus in a safe place with the rest of the heavy stuff - smiles. To me I would give up a little (but hate to) on image quality for speed of operation (less missed shots) and a great light gathering, and long zoom range in a fixed lens. Even MP is not as important as true image quality (even I loss track of that point) but the Fuji s9000 seems to fill my bill - but why no true image stabilization? I would love to see a lot of images (hand held and tripod) compared side by side in full sized files.
NightHawk at 01:35pm on Sunday, September 04, 2005
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Neil and nighthawk
got this reply from the fuji guys
"Unfortunately, we have not yet tested or used this model. We cannot confirm this information until we get sample units in the tech center. Once we have this information, we will contact you".
I was told by a camera repair guy to try and avoid long lenses like 28-300 for eg. He says these have plenty of pins and elements that can get stuck up in the long run. He says its better to have separate lenses which means Dslr again !
Dr Krishna Raman at 02:29pm on Tuesday, September 06, 2005
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A camera repair guy may not have the same prospective as me - I do not want to carry bulky extensive lens and try to keep the interior of camera and both ends of all the lens clean. It would take a minumum of 3 DSLR lens to sorta duplicate than range but at loss of fstop unless you pay 3 times the cost of a digcam for one lens which weighs a ton. Which is more important a clean lens and the right lens on the camera for a once in a livetime shot or a trip to the photo shop once in two years? Just buy two or there digcams and have a spare or two for the price of a DSLR and one set of lens - you could have a three different ones for all different ocations for the same price as one DSLR. They would not weigh any more either. No extra lens bouncing around in a photo bag with one more one one the camera can cause more wear and tear in my opinion.
NightHawk at 09:18pm on Tuesday, September 06, 2005
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http://www.digital-world.info/viewtopic/t-2485/start-0.html
Neil and Nighthawk see this link.
apparently Fuji zoom lenses are prone for zoom errors! I googled and found plenty of compaints on fuji lenses. We need to be careful
Dr Krishna Raman at 07:25am on Wednesday, September 07, 2005
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Thanks - it looks as if I will have to postpone my purchase anyway - but it will not be a DSLR
NightHawk at 09:19am on Wednesday, September 07, 2005
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Oh dear, now the Fuji has suddenly gone out of the window. Its quite funny really, that we have all now managed to scrap ideas to purchase all of these new models before they have even hit the shops. There are still so many excellent cameras around and its not based on price. I sort of agree with Nighthawk... that the best way forward is to forget about DSLR (too bulky with seperate lens) but carry two cameras. One for your pocket and the heavier digizoom for the Mrs to carry up the mountain (while you are busy snapping with the pocket one) ! As I said earlier, the Mrs's camera is an Olympus AZ1, around £100 but it takes brilliant photos. We each took a photo of a horse which was on the edge of a field, out of eyesight range. I had a 300mm lens on an SLR film camera and her cheapo camera produced an excellent shot. It was into the area of using digital zoom (instead of optical zoom) but it was as good and certainly zoomed nearer than mine. I don't know what it would have been like on a large format print. So, don't be sucked in by price. Base your purchase on deciding your requirements and actually looking at all of these cameras in your local dealers shop.
Neil Armstrong at 09:54am on Wednesday, September 07, 2005
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The problem with living in a low populated area is I would have to travel hundreds of miles to go to a "local" store that carried more than on or two of the different cams. The KM A200 should still be in the running if you give it to the MRs (would be a nice fit in her hands). A shoot I took of a one store town - without the town >http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/22662060/ old sony F707
NightHawk at 06:19pm on Wednesday, September 07, 2005
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Couldn't find the picture on that link Nighthawk I somehow thought that you might not be near a 'local' camera shop. Reading other (bigger) forums there is much more following for the FZ30 than the competitors, despite the reported noise. Consensus of opinion seems that any camera producing a good shot in low light at high ISO would be achieved by software and impact on the original photo. Therefore it was better to remove noise on the pc after the event, also that the FZ20 had a good reputation of nice light, sharp zoomed, pictures at dusk (without noise). Also, that noise would only creep into the odd photo here and there an d could still be dealt with later. The FZ30 has gone back on my list to see at my 'local'. I may see it soon, I will keep you posted.
Neil Armstrong at 09:08am on Thursday, September 08, 2005
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Neil and Nighthawk
see dcresource.com and Steves-digicams.com
Sony has released a new camera with 10 million pixels and a large format sensor! But the zoom is 24-120 only! It also has a hot shoe! I am very disappointed with the lack of telephoto. Now I am going to wait and see if they give conversion lenses in which case rebel is out for me.
Dr Krishna Raman at 09:45am on Thursday, September 08, 2005
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Hi Krishna, thanks for that. I assume they are trying to sell this new Sony as a quality, wide angle job... but personally, I don't see the point. I would rather have a pocket compact than a bulky camera like that without much zoom. Not for me !
Neil Armstrong at 11:17am on Thursday, September 08, 2005
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Good analysis trail, but without camera, and picture side-by-side comparisons it is like being a blind person, and imagining a movie! Or buying a car without a test drive!
Image quality IQ is paramount importance, as are many of the other features, but when it is all over, the picture quality wins three years later. The comment about noiseless 300mm pic is better than noisy 420mm is quite valid.
Seems we are in a transitional camera period, with Sony just releasing a large format sensor, albeit wide angle short lens.
I ordered the FZ30 through Panasonic club (10% off, free shipping) but may now cancel it, although there is another ebay site that is selling the silver version for $400!)
Check out dcresource carefully, as there are lots of postings there as people report on the camera as they receive it.
The Fujifilm 9000 (in US) looks to be the ISO leader, although perhaps just getting a Canon IS S2 may be the best transition purchase while marketing and engineering catch up to reality. Although flash is limited to camera flash with no hot shoe, it does everything else these cameras currently offer and includes and IS Image stabilization.
New models are frequent, perhaps every 6 months, and I am sure the FZ40 will be a knockout!
I am surprised the zoom lens problems eliminated the Fujifilm 9000 from further consideration, as I am still looking closely at it.
Philackley at 02:05pm on Thursday, September 08, 2005
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Sorry to be late on this information exchange. So guess what came in the mail today? DMC-FZ30! It was not supposed to ship until 9/12, got here in 2 days! Arrived here before I could cancel order!
So do I open it or send it back?
I am a guy, cannot resist temptation, that is why we have so many toys!
I was all set to order the FujiFilm, but then was going to pick up a Canon IS S2 and just wait it out, now I have this great looking camera so I guess I might as well test it, and turn it back if it does not fulfill my needs.
So I can actively test this unit, with its weeny 32mb card, good thing I just ordered a Kingston 1GB card 50x for my pdf, from Buy.com; they have the 120x 2GB card for $120 which will be my ultimate selection.
Stand by, more to report soon.
P
philackley at 07:47pm on Thursday, September 08, 2005
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I think that you should use it and see, post pics of bright day light in open grassy areas, blue skypics, housing area pics, people and if you are not satisfied return it! If you do post any pics pl give us any link and this will help
us too
Dr Krishna Raman at 10:59pm on Thursday, September 08, 2005
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The Pan FZ30 lost my interest with the noise factor and same with the sony F828. A clear pic is a must and I have no desire to "save" poor pictures from camera noise.
Ya I agree you should use it (if you can send it back without getting attached to it like a puppy and ignore its flaws). See if the noise is bad and test it not only under what it does its best at. Do the types of photo you like, want , and have not even thought about. Then see if it has what you need but please just not settle.
NightHawk at 11:34pm on Thursday, September 08, 2005
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Hi Philackley, it will be great to have your feedback on what you think of it and some photo postings would be great too. I haven't totally ruled out the FZ30 yet but that noise does'nt sound good. I was hoping to get a new digizoom job before I go to Italy and the Fuji and the Samsung aren't around yet so its beginning to look like I will have to take my Nikon F55 SLR instead and wait a bit longer to see the feedback from all these latest cameras. I would love to see Olympus come out with a new one to trump all these.
Neil Armstrong at 09:00am on Friday, September 09, 2005
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The s9500 and the FZ30 both seem to be out and about now but I can't find much feedback about what they think. I guess everyone is too busy playing with them.
Neil Armstrong at 09:27am on Saturday, September 10, 2005
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feed back on the individual cameras does me little good - side by side comparisons (apples with apples - not apples and organes) would be priceless amount the top five. KM A200, s9000, pro 815, maybe the FZ30 (not under my consideration), and the flawless wonder (a hope, yet unidentified or even made).
NightHawk at 11:24am on Saturday, September 10, 2005
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I now have the FZ30 and I just don't see the noise problem being that big a deal. I shoot numerous types of pics and most are under 8x10 in size. The noise factor at ISO 100 appears no greater than most other pro-sumer digicams I've had, including the Konica-Miniota A2 and A200. It doesn't rival the Fuji S2 in clarity, but that's just my humble opinion. You'd laugh when I say the some of the best best pics I've ever shot were from an Olympus e-100RS, only a 1.5 MP camera, but with one of the best lenses I've seen. Their publication in travel articles attests to the quality. But again, megapixels don't alone make the camera great. On the FZ30, you can clean up any noise with software if you need to, but I just haven't needed to so far. Try one out before taking everyone's word on this camera. I almost passed it up based on others reviews and decided to buy it anyway.
Dr. Bruce at 01:45am on Tuesday, September 13, 2005
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Check out this FZ30 site. I'm not sure what language, but the photos on page 4 speak volumes. Enjoy!
http://www.fotoaparat.cz/article/10165/1
Bruce at 01:57am on Tuesday, September 13, 2005
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Hello Dr Bruce . I will see the photos on the link and comment again. I almost gave up this camera (Fz30) but will see your link
Dr Krishna Raman at 02:36am on Tuesday, September 13, 2005
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Hi Guys. I'm new to this blog but seriously looking to buy a prosumer digital with long zoom. Natch, I'm looking at the FZ30 and S9500. For serious stuff I use Rollei medium format & Contax G2 for 35mm, tripods etc but I take many more snaps on my Sony K750i cameraphone (2mp, autofocus, etc) I need something to bridge the gap but be small enough to carry around as a complete kit - so not a DSLR. The noise I've seen at ISO400 on the FZ30 really puts me off (I printed one of the sample pics) and the Fuji seems OK at 800, certainly usable. Any S9500 or S9000 proper reviews out there yet?
Bazza at 09:22am on Wednesday, September 14, 2005
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Neil and Nighthawk. Stay away from the Fuji 9000. I just had a chance to test it . Shot various angles, shots , indoor outdoor etc. The flash recycling is tooooo slow! The auto focus speed/ accuracy is nowhere near the Sony 828 or Lumix Fz20. Lot of inaccurate shots. Dont buy this camera.
Dr Krishna Raman at 09:44am on Saturday, September 17, 2005
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Thanks Krishna, from reading other forums and the small number of photos I have seen, I would choose the FZ30 anyway and live with the noise. Having said that, I am convinced that there is a better camera on the design table right now that will be the one we are all looking for. Any news on the Samsung Pro815, on paper that looks good but I can't see anyone getting excited about it.
Neil Armstrong at 10:15am on Saturday, September 17, 2005
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Full review of FZ30 now available:-
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/PanasonicFZ30/
Neil Armstrong at 10:48am on Saturday, September 17, 2005
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Krishna and others- thanks for the advice. I've just read the dpreview article on the FZ30 and ruled it out. Also saw a brief user review on Fuji talk forum by "Anne in Gatineau" a semi-pro in Canada. She bought both FZ30 and S9000. She sent the FZ30 back but kept the Fuji. I've printed a few of her samples at A4 on decent paper and they look pretty good to me. See URL below (don't know if it will appear as a link, but that's technology for you.)
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1012&message=15009015
Bazza at 09:47am on Monday, September 19, 2005
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After a read of the spec of Panasonic DMC-FZ30, I would say - this is a very good buy at that price. I am waiting to see exactly what the performance of this camera - picture quality specially. If the review is good, I would like to give this a try. I have presently the FZ20 and it performed very well. I now use it instead of my Nikon Photomic which is non digital. Are there any manufacturer who can match Panasonic on the price and spec ?
Bren D Buenaluz at 10:26am on Monday, September 19, 2005
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Has anyone seen user or professional reviews of the Samsung pro 815 yet?
Bazza at 10:37am on Monday, September 19, 2005
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With ref to Bazza post (104). I read the thread from 'Anne in Gatineau'. Its true that she said that she returned her FZ30 and kept the S9000 but later she borrowed another FZ30 from a friend and decided it was much better than the original one that she had. I saw the photos and my opinion is that the S9000 photos were nothing special, to me they lacked a crispness that you can see in the FZ30 photos but the s9000 was better in lower light or higher ISO. It would be interesting to do some direct 'like for like' comparisons with both cameras. Seeing as I have now somehow managed to actually order both cameras. I was gonna stick with the FZ30 but then I saw the S9000 far too cheap (http://www.dabs.co.uk), its probably a mistake in price but it will be interesting to see if I receive it at that price. I thought it would be good fun to do some comparisons at different settings and print size etc. I still haven't received either camera yet, so it may take a couple of weeks until I get the pictures posted. Watch this space !
Neil Armstrong at 10:51am on Monday, September 19, 2005
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Well seen the full review now at http://www.dpreview.com for the FZ30. Being a FZ20 owner and very happy with it though i am using it along side a EOS 300d so at high iso it is no match for the slr i was curious to c what improvements would be made.
Having now downlaoded a lot of teh test images taken with the camera the noise levels r high there can be no doubt in that. Though if u want to print at 6x4 7x5 10x8 they wont notice and i can recommend if you are worried about Noise which is apparent on nearly all compact digital cameras due to the size of ccd. Try using Neat Image a piece of software that works wonders on noise on compact digital cameras.
I will def be replacing my fz20 for the new big brother well done panasonic.
John at 01:48pm on Monday, September 19, 2005
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Ok I am totally confused! People buy a 8mp camera and live with noise - why not buy a 5mp and have nice images? What is the point of having a camera cost over $600 that is only good for snap shoot or each images need a lot of help to be useable. With people like this around I can understand why the camera manufacters produce such poor cameras.
NightHawk at 04:19pm on Monday, September 19, 2005
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Well, I've been out and about with the FZ30. It takes fantastic pictures during the day. I took a couple of photos at night. One of a street lamp and one of car headlights in pitch black (camera set to automatic). It set itself to ISO200 (I thought it might have gone for ISO400). I can't see any noise at all on those photos on the pc afterwards. I'm happy with the FZ30 so far ! I have also played with the S9500 and both of these cameras are physically very similar.
Neil Armstrong at 02:45pm on Thursday, September 22, 2005
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A very interesting exchange; thanks to all who have contributed. You've all clearly been going through the same lists of cameras and the same ups and downs as I have over the last few weeks!
I'm now fairly (75%) resolved to purchase the K-M FZ30; I may remember to pop back and give my opinion. Of all the prosumer cams I've tested in the last couple of weeks, the FZ20 and 30 felt the most like 'proper' cameras - cameras you'd be proud to stick in someone's face when travelling, or spend hours hanging around notable buildings or parks at odd times of the day trying to capture that one special shot... and equally cameras which can pick out people in a crowded room for candid portraits... and whose high-ISO performance isn't THAT bad - I wonder if there's a CCD quality control thing going on here, as there seems to be quite a range of opinions flying around.
I should also say that I have a deep-rooted hatred of the Fuji and Olympus firmwares for some reason, having been a Canon man for several years.
Tom at 01:02am on Wednesday, September 28, 2005
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It is funny how everybody focuses on noise so much to the exclusion of other factors. From what I read so far, it seems that Fuji S9000 has run away from the rest of the market segment in terms of low noise at high ISO settings. This would really move me towards the S9000 since high noise can really ruin an image, and I find that I do most of my pictures indoors, subjects being running kids, and the freedom to pick extra depth of focus or shorter exposure time would certainly be very helpful.
On the other hand, a camera's performance is determined by so much more than just noise. After all, you can get a salvageable 4x6" print with pretty high noise levels. On the other hand, if the AF does not perform well in low light or with moving subjects (my Fuji S602 suffers from both of these afflictions), you may not even get a shot in which you would have the high noise levels to complain about. Also, white balance in less than perfect light conditions - while you can fix all that in postprocessing, I often don't have time for it. Finally, I find manual focus on most prosumer digicams to be basically useless. My S602 was the bright spot for its day - it had a zoom ring rather than a cumbersome wheel or buttons, and it had the maginifcation of the center portion of the LCD to assist in manual focus. However, the response time of the whole system - focus-by-wire ring and the slow-refresh-rate LCD was such that manual focusing was even slower than the AF which was not rocket speed either. I tried MF on a KM A200, and it sucked just as much. Canon PowerShot Pro1 came close, and the best camera I have seen in that regard was the Panasonic FZ20, so I am more optimistic about the FZ30 in that regard.
My point is, however, that the cameras must be evaluated on multitude of performance aspects, and not just in terms of who has the lowest noise as this discussion seems to suggest. I have not even mentioned things like wide-angle limit, lens distortion and sharpness and other things that I am not sophisticated enough a photographer to talk about.
Mikey at 05:27pm on Thursday, September 29, 2005
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I focus on Noise since if it makes you work at salvaging a 8X10 (after time invested) or living with a 4x6 I would buy a $10 disposible camera not a 8mp.
NightHawk at 06:19pm on Thursday, September 29, 2005
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Mikey -- I totally agree that focusing on one factor is a problem but we have not been. There are things such as the "limiting factor". To some people the camera must have a good manual focus, to others a long zoom, to others produce a useable 18”X24” off tripod. I want a useable 18X24 image - so if noise is the limiting factor so be it. I have already given my wish list and it included a wide range of factors. Why waste your time on a camera discussing lens and speed and such if the noise level "limiting factor" does not allow you to produce an image that you desire. Granted, you may have different limiting facors. If you will live with a 4X6 why are you even looking at 8mp cameras with noise problems? Go to a 5mp or even 3mp - seems simple to me – As soon as you settle for a 4X6 your argument only make sense with a 1 -3mp camera or cell cam not a 8 mp do it all camera.
NightHawk at 06:40pm on Thursday, September 29, 2005
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Unfortunately I cannot afford to charter Panasonic or anyone else to produce a camera for My needs, so I have to deal with what is on the market. I want to have a movie mode, that rules out DSLRs. I want a usable manual focus, that rules out anything but prosumer cameras. I would love nothing more than a camera with a nice low-noise 4 MP sensor, but that does not seem to sell to the public. I cannot get one of the better old cameras like some of the one-piece Olympus bits because older cameras are tooo slooooww.
So I am forced to wait for some compromise that is still on the drawing board or is about to be released. I am done waiting though - if this current crop of prosumer cameras does not produce a workable compromise, I will forget about the movie mode and get a D70.
I do wonder though why so many people that worry about noise above all don't get a DSLR. An Olympus EVOLT can be had with a pair of lenses covering 14-200mm (28-400 35mm equivalent) for not much more than a prosumer camera, and I am sure a reasonable single lens can be found for most occasions. It is noisy by DSLR standards, but is worlds above anything in the prosumer segment. Plus it has that nifty ultrasonic sensor cleaner feature that gets rid of any dust on the sensor. I know, lugging about two lenses and a brick of a camera is not nearly as sexy as a small camera with a giant lens barrel, but man will that make your wall-sized prints look awsome!
Mikey at 08:30pm on Thursday, September 29, 2005
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Mikey - neither can I have a custom camera or anything made but I have my wishlist -- there always seens to be a fatal flaw hidden and I do look for it. What I want is sooo doable if the components on the market were put together the most advantagous way (for me - smiles).
How often do you use the movie mode? It has been a selling point for me but I just do not use it that much. Why not get a cheap movie camera to do the job. I do want a all in one camera.
NightHawk at 03:43am on Saturday, October 01, 2005
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Well, I don't use the movie mode much now, but that is because I cannot zoom while in movie mode, at least not on my camera. It was pretty much an afterthought when I bought this one. But now, I think, with the mechanical zoom rings and continuous AF, movie mode could be usable.
I do have a camcorder, but for me I have to choose to take along a camera, or a camcorder, or both but leave the wife at home. And the last choice carries some significant problems as you may understand.
So when I do pick the new camera this fall (probably AF speed and MF response will be more of a deciding factor for me than noise - I rarely venture past 4x6 prints), I will evaluate whether the new and improved movie mode produces acceptable results. If not, I will definitely trade the camera back for a DSLR, most likely a D70 (that kit lens is AWSOME, and D70 autoISO mode is the best in the segment).
Mikey at 07:06pm on Saturday, October 01, 2005
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Thanks for clearing that up for me! I was scraching my head - as to me you were not needing a 8 mp camera. Silly me - you did not want a 8mp camera but had to look for one for the other features that were limiting factors for you. I really appreciate you puttin up with we and am glad you asked the question about noise -- turns out it put alot of light on the subject that I was ignoring. Would love to hear what you find out. My golden egg was spent on other things but I want a replacement for my stolen 8 mp and will get on by next summer - I truly hope -and then look for Grizzly Bears in the wild (the need for 8mp and a long zoom and no goofing around with lenses becomes life saving or at least shot making vs not). Do not want to take a once in a life shot and not have the potential to use every pixel. But it must have image stabilization, be fast, high quality glass, and to reach that need.
NightHawk at 11:06pm on Saturday, October 01, 2005
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Ahh, but the Olympus E-100RS with the long zoom and the 15FPS speed has been the king of fast photography for a long time. At just 1.5MP though, it was relegated to the closeout shelf after one year when the larger pixel count sensors became available. But the lens is superior to most on the market, with the exception of the strict SLR, that the quality of the photos does not suffer. I don't know how to add a few photos here or I would post a few that have not been retouched just for comparison. I love the FZ30 but I'll never relinquish the E-100 for sports either. Again, just my prefernces.
Dr. Bruce at 11:25pm on Saturday, October 01, 2005
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Amateur Photographer (my most trusted review source)has now reviewed the Fuji S9500. They like the overall performance, noise control and the usable ISOs (800 up to A3 prints) but criticise slow refresh on the LCD, slowish autofocus and relatively low burst rate. They gave it a good rating (85%) but say it would be close to 90% if you don't do sports photography. They are doing the FZ30 next week.
bazza at 12:15pm on Tuesday, October 04, 2005
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Thanks for the info bazza ! --- Soon we will have review from Amateur Photographer Fuji S9500 and FZ30 Now it they did the Samsung Pro815 it would almost be like a side by side comparison. Does anyone know why they did not put true image stabilization in these two cameras (i do not place the FZ30 on my list)?????
NightHawk at 09:04pm on Tuesday, October 04, 2005
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The latest review and it's a very good one. Just about what I found from real world use of the FZ30.
http://www.megapixel.net/reviews/panasonic-fz30/fz30-gen.php
Dr. Bruce at 12:29am on Wednesday, October 05, 2005
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Dr. Bruce, do you own a FZ30? I hope you don't mind answering a couple of questions if you do. My main concerns are the usability of manual focus - is the focus ring and LCD response rate fast enough for focusing on moving kids/animals? and AF performance on those subjects. Also, the megapixel.net review was not terribly clear on the difference between high speed 1-area AF and simple 1-area AF. They mentioned that the high speed 1-area AF has a focus range limitation but did not state what it was. Do you know and would you be willing to clarify?
Currently, FZ30 seems to top my list - S9000 would be nice with the low noise at high iso, but the complaints seem to center around AF speed and LCD refresh rate - both key features on my list. And Pro 815 seems too fishy based on currently available information and my prior experience with Samsung products - I would love to be surprised though. Kodak P880 is also a possible contender, though I am not holding my breath - I have utmost faith in Kodak's ability to dumb the feature set down just enough to make it worthless. I think the FZ30 is too noisy and some controls REALLY should have dedicated buttons, but I can live with the noise and even the mighty D70 hid an essential control in menus - you need to go to menus to switch between S-AF and C-AF - so complaining about the interface of a prosumer camera is useless
Mikey at 05:13am on Wednesday, October 05, 2005
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Is this the link to Amateur Photographer's review for Fuji S9500? cost 3 pound? I will wait for my most trusted site to review the three and hopefully a better one coming out in the next 6 months -http://www.testreports.co.uk/photography/ap/stock/Model.asp?Model=22459&ModelPage=true
my trusted reviews come from : http://www.imaging-resource.com/OTHER1.HTM
and side by side pic comparisons (sister site) http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM
NightHawk at 07:29am on Wednesday, October 05, 2005
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Neil and Nighthawk
I finally bought the rebel xt with a 17-85 IS lens.The quality of the pics blew me away. I have settled down!
Krishna Raman
mediyoga at 01:01pm on Wednesday, October 05, 2005
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mediyoga -- I am happy the you love your choice! It is just not mine - I would be settling (and yes maybe falling in love also - smiles). I am holding out for a all in one camera hopefull 8-9mp plus smiles. As yet there is not a single lens availible for any DSLR or removeable lens camera that comes remotely close to a 14-200mm (28-400 35mm equivalent) zoom with min f-stops in low twos to high 3s at telo. Or even a two lens set --- The 17-85 IS lens is 35mm so not a wide wide angle and the second lens? A 70-200 costing and weighing three times as much as my dream digcam. So the best availible for the canon rebel xt in a equivalent system (28-400 35mm equivalent)requires -- at a minimum two lens with two filter kits plus a super wide angle converter - this system costs and takes up as much space as 2-4 dream digcams. I am glad you love your camera but it is a totally different type of system.
NightHawk at 01:37pm on Wednesday, October 05, 2005
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Nighthawk
The lens has a 1.6 crop that makes it 27.2-136mm which is not so bad. I have not decided on the second lens. There is a 70-300 IS that is not as expensive as the L series which is due in Oct. I am waiting for the review. This is half the cost of the L series. But again , the quality of pics is great! Its a good walk around lens.
Krishna Raman
mediyoga at 02:44pm on Wednesday, October 05, 2005
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Mikey:
Yes I own an FZ30. I'm amazed at the fast response on the LCD's, both the viewfinder and the display, and how they keep up, with the doom. The ring is the closest to a manual zoom SLR I've seen, and it's intuitive to spin it when you zoom, just like the SLR's. I shoot moving trains, cars, boats and other subjects and have been very pleased with the performance.
There are 5 AF Modes, and the two high speed modes operate on a 3 area (left, center and right) or 1 area (center) focus. The only limitation on either of the high speed modes is that the whan you press the shutter halfway, the picture may "freeze" for a moment before focusing. I have not had that happen, but the manual says it can, so that could be the limitation they are mentioning. Also, high speed AF sem to simply focus on the subject faster. I leave mine on the Continuous Autofocus mode and it doesn't appear to matter anyway. Supposedly eats more battery juice but with 240 shots per charge, who needs to count?
I like the Scene 1 and 2 controls to set the controls to how I want for certain frequently used shots, such as sports and scenery. There are lots to choose from and I don't think thre's another camera out there this well appointed for the price. Plus, the display and EVF clarity is awesome.
Noise wise, nothing I can't live with. I've shot grainy prints underwater and in the sky from Mt. Haleakala in Hawaii to The Virgin Islands, Ireland, and Southeast Asia, so no matter how good or bad the camera, film or photographer, you can always do a good or bad photo and it always comes at the worst time. My suggestion is to get an FZ30 in your hand and try it out for yourself. The real proof is how it looks and feels to you and how the final prints appear in YOUR eyes.... Good luck.
Dr. Bruce at 09:59pm on Wednesday, October 05, 2005
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Thank you mediyoga - I just wish the could just state true power insted of mm - but that would be to easy - smiles. So since it goes to 27mm all you need is a second len. I agree that the 27.2-136mm 0.5 - 2.75 ish power is a great walk around lens. I would need a second lens at times.
Bruce: You need to get paid for recommendations like above. So did they fix the FZ30 from pre to production models or do we just have less critical reviewers now?
NightHawk at 11:02pm on Wednesday, October 05, 2005
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They couldn't pay me for my comments. Good or bad, I call them as I see them. I liked the Konica Minolta A2, didn't like the A200 but not especially for the quality of the pics. The ergonomics and hot it fit my hand, the display and other issues were just not to my liking. I liked the Olympus E2 lots better than the E1 although they are very similar cameras. Much of what we read and write here is based on personal use and preference and real-world handling of the camera.For instance, as an investigator, as much as I like just about everything about the Konica-Minolta 7D, changing lenses in a fire scene would have dust, dirt, smoke and soot inside the body in a second and make the photos less than perfect, when that is the time I need them to be their best. Even a camera with a wave filter would not be applicable in that atmosphere. So, the non-removable lens on the job becomes a necessity rather than a preference. That's why I tell everyone to hold and try the camera, because the best camera is the one YOU like, not the one some reviewer likes best!
Dr. Bruce at 12:29am on Thursday, October 06, 2005
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And, if the production models are different that the pre-production models, I presume they did some minor adjustment to the firmware or filtering. Because it seems the noise issue that everyone, including me, thought would be glaring at low ISO 80-200 doesn't appear to be a problm. At the higher numbers it is still there but I don't see it as a huge problem in my type of shooting. To others it could be.
Dr. Bruce at 12:34am on Thursday, October 06, 2005
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Thanks DR. Bruce -- I agree about the KM A200 great camerea if you have small hands. Thats while I would prefer a larger one body. I am glad you are happy with the FZ30. Sorry for the tone of the last letter. It just didn no track with our earlier take.
NightHawk at 03:00am on Thursday, October 06, 2005
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No problem with the comments; well taken. Photography and the resultant products are like everything in life. The beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some beautiful equipment will drive you crazy with idiosyncracies, and make it so user unfriendly it will be relegated to that dark hole in the back of your closet. Other equipment is so ugly, but works so well and easily, that you overlook the ugliness just to use it every day. Enjoy photography and the world, because it's the one place you truly can capture the entire world in the palm of your hand!
Dr. Bruce at 10:02pm on Thursday, October 06, 2005
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OK, a slovenian website just published what looks like a rather thorough field review of Fuji S9000 vs. Panasonic FZ30 (http://www.e-fotografija.com/artman/publish/article_811.shtml). My knowledge of Russian and Ukrainian is not enough to make much sense of Slovenian 
Anyone speaking the language willing to read and convey the highlights? As these two cameras appear to be the current segment leaders with Fuji winning in noise and Panasonic in usability, this seems like a review that someone should publish in English...
Mikey at 03:56pm on Monday, October 10, 2005
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Well, guys, the "Amateur Photographer" review of the FZ30 came out today. I guess the FZ's off my Christmas present list now!
Last week I took one of the published samples from the S9500 and printed it. It was an outdoor portrait of a young lady, possibly with some fill-in flash, so I printed it to A4. Quite impressive with good tone gradation and good detail. I was then able to compare it with a similar sized print I made a couple of years ago, also an outdoor portrait with a touch of fill flash but using my Contax 35mm SLR and 200ISO Fuji print film. The Contax print was certainly crisper (Zeiss 50mm Planar)but also had a better "tonality" and handled the out-of-focus background rather better. I printed Fuji's digital sample up to A3 and it held-up pretty well, but I was able to compare it with a 20" x 16" version of my Contax print. No contest. I then printed some A4 samples from a pre-production Sony R1. Absolutely stunning, virtually as good as the Contax film results. OK a much smaller focal length range than the Fuji or Lumix but what quality.
I want one (when it's available,) and I'll buy a "cheapie" FZ5 for the occasional sporting snap where I need a long zoom.
bazza at 12:43pm on Tuesday, October 11, 2005
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Bazza, interesting comment regarding the Sony DSC-R1. I have had
my eye on that camera, as well. Its APS-C sensor is huge, compared
to the 1/1.8" to 2/3" sensors of these other high end non-SLRs (FZ30,
Pro815, S9000). Maybe its lens is not the fastest, or its zoom not the
longest, but it is difficult to argue with image quality.
GARY POGODA at 06:27pm on Tuesday, October 11, 2005
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http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/camera/review/61/page_6.html S9000 review
four cameras compared >http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/F10/F10A.HTM#overview
Gary -- lens speed can be more important the image quality - sad to say. I have missed or not even tried shots due to the slow responce of digcams. But still that is faster than changing or adding lens as you have to do for all DSLRs and most digcams. Seems there are two exceptinons the A200 and the S9000.
the S9000 is the leader for me so far
1) graduated manual zoom ring
2)best ISO,Fstop, and Shutter speed range
3) 28mm wide angle vs 35mm
4) Hot shoe and sync!!!!
5) 300 mm telo with 9mp combine to give ZOOM
6) AA batteries - not another camera battery
7) CF and XD slot (can store to either slot)
8) Size fits larger hands than A200
9) 5th gen sensor (proven in F-10)
10) usable RAW mode and nice appearance
NightHawk at 05:48pm on Sunday, October 23, 2005
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The S9000 has nice features, but its CCD is minuscule compared to
the R1's. BTW, just so we are on the same page, when I referred to
the R1's slower lens, I was talking about its aperture range, so really
the S9000 is no better off.
GARY POGODA at 08:27pm on Sunday, October 23, 2005
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Just seen a review of the Sony R1 on a Polish site ("Fotopolis")
Some of the samples are really very impressive and worth a look..
http://www.fotopolis.pl/index.php?gora=4&lewa=3&e=3342&p=7
Also interesting are some sample comparisons versus Canon Pro 1 and Olympus E300 and, for me, the Sony wins hands sown on both definition and high ISO performance.
One possible negative comment is that I noticed what could looks a bit like hot pixels on the flesh tones of a portrait. It might just be tiny reflections from the on-camera flash...I just don't know.
See what you think.
bazza at 02:37pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2005
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Could not find the review. I'll wait for an English one.
GARY POGODA at 04:59pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2005
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Thanks!!!! Gary!!! Ya I thought that was what you meant after I sent the note oops "I referred to the R1’s slower lens, I was talking about its aperture range." instead of autofocus or lag time as I assumed at first.
You got me to look at the camera -- Thanks!!! I currently shoot a Sony F707 - after having my KM A200 stolen (I do love my Sony -- its lens and images are great for a 5mp - bought when it first came out as To Me it produced better images than even the $5000 Nikon pro at that time).
WOW ! Now if they make a great 2 power converter with 67 mm threads for filters!!
I sure hope they do think threaded filters are a good thing for a converter!!! Is there one out there?
No movie mode but I rarely use it anyway!!
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/sonydscr1/page2.asp
24mm - 120mm equiv. standard lens
• 21.5 x 14.4 mm CMOS sensor versus
8.8 x 6.6 mm of F828
over 5 times the AREA!!!
Double WOW!!!
• RGB Color Filter Array
• Built-in fixed low-pass filter
• 10.3 million effective pixels
• 3:2 aspect ratio
Images sizes • 3888 x 2592 (10M)
• 3264 x 2176 (7M)
• 2748 x 1856 (5M)
• 2160 x 1440 (3M)
• 1296 x 864 (1M)
Wow!!!
• Electronic Viewfinder with dioptre adjustment
• 0.44" TFT LCD
• 235,200 pixels
LCD • 2.0" TFT LCD
• 134,000 pixels
• Anti-reflective coating
• Flip-up and twist (top mounted)
nice!!!!!!!
• Auto
• ISO 160
• ISO 200
• ISO 400
• ISO 800
• ISO 1600
• ISO 3200
dreamland!!!!
Auto: 1/8 sec
• Program AE: 1 sec
• Aperture Priority: 8 sec
• Shutter Priority: 30 sec
• Manual: Bulb (3 mins)
nice a day and night digcam !!!!!
USB 2.0 (Hi-Speed)
NightHawk at 05:43pm on Tuesday, October 25, 2005
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Gary & Nighthawk - the Polish site is well worth a look.
Unfortunately the link I supplied insists on taking you to the magazine's home page, not the review - and I can't fix it!
Go to the home page (my link), then click "testa cyfra" on left hand side. This lists all the tests.
Scroll down to the Sony ("test aparatu Sony Cyber...etc") then click on the little orange "weicej" link on the right hand side after the photo.
This takes you to the DSC-R1 review. Page 6 is the comparison shots with Canon pro 1 and E300, page 7 has a summary in English and page 8 is the samples. I've printed a couple of the samples on a Canon S200 and they are good.
Looking at the portrait print I think the hot pixels I referred to are actually tiny reflections of perspiration from the on-camera flash.
bazza at 08:36am on Wednesday, October 26, 2005
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Gary - 138 - after looking at the facts the Sony R1 camera is Slow !!! I was right in my assumption there are lot faster cameras than Sony! The only way to take fast shots is "prefocused". So it is still nothing like a 35mm film camera or even a fast digcam. Sony must look at improving the speed of its internal processor or it will never be a good choice for an action camera !!! Now it is good only for taking pics of stationary things with patience or dead stuff where timing is not a problem -- that rules out pic near sunset or sunrise where lighting and mood chances dramatically - fast.
NightHawk at 01:12pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2005
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Never claimed the R1 was perfect, just THE best image sensor of all
non-dSLRs. The only R1 performance spec I have seen was its 3fps
Continuous Shooting. From your comment, I assume you have seen
other less favorable performance specs.
GARY POGODA at 09:37pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2005
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Yes just found a review in my favorite site where you can compare it side by side with other images of different cameras-- saddly the s9000 has not been reviewed.
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/R1/R1A8.HTM
This site was were I fell in love with the Sony F-707 and have hated its slowness for four years. The R1 takes almost a secound to -- power on, shutter lag, full autofocus so just average with prosumer cameras but stacked up against a D-SlR they state "timing performance leaves much to be desired" At full power flash takes 6 sec to recycle!
NightHawk at 11:30pm on Wednesday, October 26, 2005
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Nighthawk - good comment and I agree that I would never use the R1 for serious sports photography, not just because of its speed but with a maximum focal length of 120mm (equivalent) it was never intended for it. A camera obviously needs to be considered in the context of the type of photography you want it for and also for the usual conditions where you live. Here in the UK we don't often get California blue skies and bright sunshine, so high ISO is more important for us.
For the most part a relatively poor burst speed is not an issue for me. Power-up to first shot is about a second, which is about the time it takes me to lift the camera up to eye level to start framing. Single shot speed is governed by the autofocus, as is my Contax G2 35mm kit - and they are roughly equivalent in speed - typically three quarters of a second or less.
I am seriously considering replacing my Contax outfit with an R1. Why? (i) I want to stay with Zeiss glass because it gives sharp and extremely natural images which correspond to what my eye sees in real life.(ii) I want a fairly big sensor so the focal lengths on the new camera are much closer to 35mm ones and my portraits can have out of focus backgrounds, good bokeh and none of the electronic nasties which cameras with small sensors have to resort to to simulate out-of-focus.(iii) I want image quality which approaches my Contax kit but with the convenience of digital.(iv) It is a good performer at ISO 400 and 800 so is appropriate to typical UK conditions.(v) I dont want
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