Canon Announces Black Version of EOS Kiss Digital DSLR

#1 mike

Is this new lame version their response to the D70 ? Is this the result of surveys like this ?

http://www.surveyworld.net/sw/surveys/part.asp?S=2510&Anonymous=1&L=1&R=0&H=C0FB4E80B59FDC98C98E95962D6E7313781AC70D

How sad

3:45 pm - Thursday, April 8, 2004

#2 tonicboy

Canon are really in a bind. If they respond to the D70 with a credible successor to the 300D, they will kill sales of the 10D. And if they add features to the 10D to distance it from a souped-up 300D, they will eat into sales of the 1D/MkII. Nikon have much better market segmentation which allowed for a great product like the D70.

12:40 am - Friday, April 9, 2004

#3 Neil Lavitt

A bind?

I suspect not. This product has been a market killer allowing them to gain significant market share. They have also established lower cost production that will allow them to lower the price of the rebel/kiss/300d.

I suspect that they will lower the price further shortly allowing them to undercut the D70 by a significant enough margin to make it better value.

The d70 has a "bunker hill" battle ahead of it.

2:42 am - Friday, April 9, 2004

#4 tonicboy

The 300D has only been a "market killer" for Canon in that they have had no competition at all until this point. The D70 changes that, with a vengeance! There is now very little reason for anyone to buy a 300D.

While I don't see how you have come to the conclusion that Canon have established lower cost production than Nikon - even if we assume that is true and that they can afford to lower the cost of the 300D, that means cost will be the only reason to buy a 300D vs a D70. A cost difference of US$200 will only appeal to customers in the low-end of the "prosumer" market, as more knowledgeable hobbyists will realize that a couple hundred of savings in the body is dwarfed by the amount of money you will spend on lenses, filters, tripods and other gear. I have no statistics to back up, but I would guess that the "advanced" prosumer market is the primary customer for this type of camera, and an extra hundred of savings will do little to sway those people.

I agree with you that the D70 is in a "Bunker Hill" battle, though. Canon got there first and by doing so will make things tough for Nikon, but ultimately Nikon will win.

2:59 am - Friday, April 9, 2004

#5 sailesh

Get a grip people. Both Canon, Nikon and the rest have film cameras at all levels for different groups. No one landed a killer punch in the last four decades so why is the D70 going to make any difference.
Companies compete, each is at a different cycle in their products development.

As a 300D user, since last Sepember, I love it and have invested in glass, so I'll wait for 2/3 years and get the best Canon for my money at that time - I am sure this will be the case for lots of Canonites.

If you're in the market for camera now get a D70 (as its the best right now £850 inc lens at Jessops wow) and get on the Nikon product cycle.

I think the Canon product cycle is some six months ahead of Nikon (1D mk2/1Ds), and the Nikon glass is a little more expensive - so there are factors other than just the body you're buying.

At this level no one is buying a dud, so buy, shoot, print, be happy

8:28 am - Friday, April 9, 2004

#6 Mark Goldstein

Chuck Westfall, Director/Technical Information Dept., Camera Division/Canon U.S.A., Inc., has indicated over on the Rob Galbraith forums that the black version will NOT be released in in North America.

8:51 am - Friday, April 9, 2004

#7 Mad@TT

"very little reason for anyone to buy a 300D."

Do you think a camera body is everything? You're not just buying a body, you're buying a camera sistem! With it come lenses, flash, camera design & ergonomics and everything else. You have to look at the whole picture unless you're wealthy enough to switch sistems whenever a new camera appears.
If anything I'd say there's little reason to buy a Nikon although it has a significant advantage at the ultra wide angle (that I love) but on the other hand, virtually no VR lenses (that I need).
Just look at how many PJs use Nikon these days. Above mentioned lens selection is the most obvious factor.

Look at the entire picture not just body specs.

Mark, do we have a case of pixel peeping?
http://www.pixelpeeping.com/

7:35 am - Saturday, April 10, 2004

#8 tonicboy

Actually, I believe we have a case of "pixel peeping peeping" - the act of condescendingly dismissing someone's opinion by calling it pixel peeping. Personally, I am absolutely in love with my 70-200 VR, and more fantastic VR's are on the way as Nikon catches up to Canon in that technology. But Canon System vs. Nikon System is a religious debate that I just won't touch with a ten foot pole. Suffice it to say that PJ's are not even close to the target market of either the 300D or D70. For that market (the advanced prosumer), the body is in fact the biggest consideration, as they will own one, maybe two lenses max, and may not even be able to afford top-of-the-line Canon glass anyway. If you look at the number of people opting for the 300D with kit lens, this will give you a little insight into just how little the lens system means to them.

2:38 pm - Saturday, April 10, 2004

#9 Mad@TT

I was joking about peepers

well I guess I am guilty of looking at this subject from a perspective of someone buying a sistem rather than just a fancy PnS.
For this type of buyers it doesn't matter if manual settings are available or not and that's one more reason why this debate of D70 vs 300d is pointless. 95% of them will never switch from AUTO setting and the firmware hack takes care of the left over 5%

ohh, BTW ... 300D or 70D are not "advanced prosumer bodies" just as 300v or F75 don't belong under that clasification. They are entry level amateur bodies for the type described above (one lens, one setting)
Just because the price tag would indicate they measure up to EOS 3 or F100 you can't really compare them... or can you?

In film era you had a clear distinction between these levels and nothing changed.

EOS3000 = F55 = Dynax 3 = (nothing in digital) - entry level
300D = 300(v) = F75/F65 = D70 = Dynax 4/5 - base level
30/33 = D60/10D = F80 = S1/2/3 = D100 - adv. amateur
EOS3 = F100/90 = (nothing in digital) - enthusiast/pro
EOS 1 (RS, N, V) = F5 = 1D(s, mkII) = D1/2 - PJ, sports...

It's weird how some people want to cover the first 4 steps with one camera...

From my point of view I look at more than a camera body with some glass (plastic?) stuck on it.
And of course, a set of remote flashes...

... if only I had the money to make this all real

3:25 pm - Saturday, April 10, 2004

#10 tonicboy

By "advanced prosumer", I mean people who formerly bought non-SLR cameras like the Canon Powershot G5, Sony F717, Nikon 5400 and of course this new crop of 8mp monsters. Also, what I really like about the D70 is that it can work in default mode great but has all the manual controls for a person to gro into. My first digital camera was an Olympus C-2000. I used it in PnS mode for months, but eventually I got tired of that, read the manual, and started sliding down this slippery slope we are all on Anyway, the 300D is still a good camera that takes beautiful pictures and I will be very interested to see how Canon responds with the 300D's successor.

4:07 pm - Saturday, April 10, 2004

#11 Mad@TT

it will respond with a 3000v successor for half the price of D70
All you have to do is wait for Photokina where Nikon will be sent home in the first round via K.O.

4:14 pm - Saturday, April 10, 2004

#12 tonicboy

You're suggesting that Canon will release a $500 DSLR? Ok, this discussion has officially descended into absurdity.

5:17 am - Sunday, April 11, 2004

#13 Mad@TT

wait and see...

8:30 am - Sunday, April 11, 2004

#14 dohyoung sung

can i buy a canon kiss black body in the usa?

12:28 pm - Tuesday, July 20, 2004

#15 Mark Goldstein

As far as I know the black version is only available in Japan.

12:43 pm - Tuesday, July 20, 2004