Panasonic DMC-LX1 Announced

July 20, 2005 | Mark Goldstein | Digital Compact Cameras | 796 Comments |

Panasonic DMC-LX1Panasonic DMC-LX1 is announced today. The Panasonic DMC-LX1 is an 8.4 megapixel digital camera with a 4x Leica optical zoom lens equivalent to 28-112mm, optical image stabilizer and a 2.5 inch LCD screen. The DMC-LX1 is the world’s first digicam with a wide angle lens and 16:9 aspect CCD. The aspect ratio can be easily selected between 16:9 or 3:2 in addition to the conventional 4:3 by using a switch on the lens barrel. The Panasonic DMC-LX1 can also record moving images at 848 x 480 16:9@Wide VGA at 30 fps. The Panasonic DMC-LX1 will be available in the UK in August in silver priced £449.99.

Panasonic Europe Press Release

Panasonic is launching a new LUMIX 16:9 wide LX series with the introduction of the DMC-LX1, 8.4-Megapixel 4x optical zoom (equivalent to 28 mm to 112 mm on a 35mm film camera) full manual compact camera. This creative compact incorporates a 8.4-Megapixel CCD and a high resolution 2.5-inch LCD in its undersized body. The aspect ratio is easily selectable between 16:9 wide, 3:2 and conventional 4:3 with a switch located on the lens barrel to shoot in the framing aspect that best suits the subjectsf composition or imagefs purpose of use.

The lens unit is comprised of 4x optical zoom LEICA DC VARIO-ELMARIT Lens and renders superb picture quality. Like other LUMIX cameras, what distinguishes the DMC-LX1 from the rest is MEGA O.I.S. (Optical Image Stabilizer), a key feature Panasonic considers should be standard in all digital still cameras. Unintentional handshake, the major cause of digital camera misshooting, is controlled by MEGA O.I.S. to allow every user to take clear, beautiful images even indoors or at nighttime. The newly incorporated Extra Optical Zoom extends the zoom ratio by using the center part of the high resolution CCD to achieve 5x for 5.5-Megapixel 16:9 image recording with minimal deterioration.

Extensive manual controls including manual focus and manual exposure can be smoothly operated with a joystick incorporated along with an omni directional cursor. Just pressing and holding the joystick shortcuts to a setting menu containing the frequently used white balance adjustment, ISO setting, image size setting and compression format.

Taking advantage of these outstanding features, the LX1 incorporates the high speed, high quality image processing LSI, the Venus Engine II. It boasts quick responsiveness that realizes the best-in-class level release time lag of 0.01 sec. For the AF, five AF modes are available; 9-point, 3-point high speed, 1-point high speed, 1-point normal speed and spot. The 1-point high speed AF boasts predominantly fast AF for stress-free focusing.

In addition, the DMC-LX1 is the first digital still camera that can record moving images at 848 x 480 16:9@Wide VGA, as smooth as 30 fps.
With a volley of features providing both enhanced image quality and responsiveness, the DMC-LX1 is an advanced compact offering elaborate manual controllability while being accommodating to entry-level users through a variety of scene modes and auto setting functions. Panasonic dares to introduce this artistic instrument suited to users at all levels who enjoy creative shooting.

1. 8.4-Megapixel 16:9 aspect CCD and 28mm wide 4x optical zoom LEICA DC Lens
The DMC-LX1 features the 8.4-Megapixel Industryfs first* 16:9 aspect CCD and 4x optical zoom 28mm wide angle** (equivalent to 28 mm to 112 mm on a 35 mm film camera) LEICA DC VARIO-ELMARIT lens. Incorporating three aspherical lenses provides high optical performance while preserving the compactness of the unit. The aspect ratio can be easily selected between 16:9 or 3:2 in addition to the conventional 4:3 with a switch on the lens barrel on a shot-by-shot-basis to best suit the composition of the image. Even after shooting, the 16:9 ratio can be converted to 3:2 or 4:3 with the camera according to your purpose of use.

The extra optical zoom, made possible by using the center part of 8.4-megapixel high resolution CCD, further extends the zoom ratio to 5x for 5.5-Megapixel image recording in 16:9 aspect with minimal deterioration.

* As a CCD of digital still camera, as of July 7, 2005.
** In 16:9 aspect ratio.

2. Image stabilizing technology MEGA O.I.S.(Optical Image Stabilizer) and high speed high quality image processing LSI Venus Engine II
MEGA O.I.S.(Optical Image Stabilizer), that Panasonic thinks it indispensable for all digital cameras, especially for compact models that lacks stability, is subsumed under LUMIX all line-up released in this year. Every slight hand-shake movement is detected accurately with the sampling frequency at 4,000 times per second and will be compensated to render clear, sharp images.

MEGA O.I.S. is equipped with 2 selectable modes. In gMode 1h, the O.I.S. lens continuously compensates for vibration and in gMode 2h, the O.I.S. lens suppresses hand-shake only at the moment the shutter button is pressed. In this mode, the lens can move in all directions at the moment to maximize its effect, and higher-resolution image can be taken by capturing the image as close as to the center of the lens. In consequence, since MEGA O.I.S. enables a beautiful picture shot without blurring at slower shutter speeds of more than three steps compared to the conventional models without O.I.S., you can enjoy shooting clear and beautiful pictures easily even in the situations using slow shutter speeds, like indoor shots for portraits and nighttime scenery for illuminated object, as well as in shootings using zoom or macro mode.
For the brain of the camera, high-speed high-quality image processing LSI Venus Engine II is incorporated to render clear images in detail, compensating for the color aberration at the edges subject to occur. It also compensates for vignetting and generates bright image in every detail. This engine boasts its high performance resulting in the industry leading level in class release time lag of 0.01 sec for achieving more stress-free operation.

*Not including the time for AF.

3. Joystick-operated intuitive manual control
The DMC-LX1 offers manual focus and manual exposure, and both are adjustable with a joystick independent of an omni directional cursor. A switch on the side of the lens barrel lets you quickly change the focus mode between MF, AF or Macro AF. When you focus in the Manual Focus mode, not only the focus distance but also the DOF (depth of field) according to the zoom range and aperture is displayed. An MF assist function enlarges the center of the image to make focusing easier. Both features contribute to easy and comfortable manual focus.

A joystick was incorporated to facilitate operational ease and thereby get the best technical advantage of the multitude of functions offered by the camera. You can quickly shortcut to frequently used variables containing white balance adjustment, ISO setting, image size setting and compression format just by pressing and holding down the joystick, even while monitoring a subject on the LCD.

Shutter speed extends up to 60 sec at slowest in Manual Exposure mode and adjustable from 1/2000 to 60 sec for wider ranging shooting opportunities. Noise reduction is available for images taken at slow shutter speed.

The AF/AE lock button supports free framing while keeping the focus locked or fixes the same exposure setting regardless of the color of a subject for taking multiple shots.

Panasonic DMC-LX14. Crystal-clear, large 2.5h LCD monitor
The 2.5h large LCD is excellent not only in size but also in the resolution, which is as high as 207 k pixels. The advantage is apparent when you check the focus during or after shooting, or when you display images even in tiny thumbnail size, across which you can move an omni-directional cursor to select. They can be played back in 9, 16 and 25 on multi-split screen in addition to the normal 1 frame playback thanks to the large high resolution LCD. This helps you to search for the image you want out of a number stored on the SD Memory Card, even if the images are in bulk. Furthermore, you can virtually checkmark your favorite images and keep them selected apart from the others to make a special slideshow with them only, or make concurrent deletion of the non-checkmarked ones if you do not need them anymore. Thanks to this feature, the LX1 can serve not just as a tool of shooting images but also as a digital album, to enjoy the seeing and showing of your favorite pictures.
To offer a clear view even in sunny outdoor conditions, the Power LCD function increases brightness by 140% just by pressing an independent button.

5. Excellent responsiveness, smart control and quick AF
The DMC-LX1 incorporates high performance image processing LSI the Venus Engine II in both speed and image quality. Thanks to the multi-task image processing, response has also been accelerated, resulting in the best-in-class level release time lag of 0.01 sec achieving more stress-free operation. For the burst shooting mode, it also boasts high consecutive shooting performance, providing shooting at 3 frames/second at 8.4-Megapixel full resolution. This function can be@instantly activated with the independent button*. Unlimited Consecutive Shooting function** allows limit-free consecutive shooting up to the capacity of the SD memory card.

An AF method can be selected according to the shooting situation: 9-point, 3-point high-speed, 1-point high-speed, 1-point normal-speed and Spot. The 1 point high-speed AF, initially incorporated in the high zoom line DMC-FZ5, dramatically reduces the AF time to realize stress-free operation. Although screen-freeze in high-speed AF is now minimized, if you take the picture of subject with fast movement, you can select 1 point normal-speed AF which does not have any screen-freeze while focusing.

* The button also performs as gDELETEh in playback mode.
** The speed of the unlimited consecutive shooting varies depending on the SD Memory Card.

6. Industryfs first 16:9 aspect Wide VGA moving image recording*
In addition to the conventional 4:3 VGA moving image recording, the LX1 can record moving images even in the 848 x 480 16:9 Wide VGA format at 30 fps, making the most of the industryfs first 16:9 CCD. Shooting is one thing but viewing is another, and you will be suitably impressed by the 16:9 moving image when it is displayed on a wide screen TV.

* As a digital still camera, as of July 7, 2005.

7. Easier and more comfortable operationality
Along with the joy stick and omni-directional cursor, a dial-operated mode shift also improves the camerafs controllability. The mode dial allows quick, direct switching between various shooting modes, moving picture mode and playback mode. In addition to the conventional ProgramAE, the LX1 is equipped with Auto mode, which caters for the entry level users. A total of 14 scene modes including Baby, Soft Skin, Food, Starry Sky and Candle helps you to take beautiful images easily in wide-ranging situations. Still it is easy to select the one out of them thanks to the Scene Mode Help Screen that shows the description of each mode and the knack for shooting of each scene and helps users to take beautiful image easily.

The LUMIX DMC-LX1 is like no other compact camera, enabling both high-end amateurs and entry-level users to explore the creativeness that surely enhances the joy of shooting.



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#501 Jem

Hey guys, been reading your conversations for a few weeks now, just put in my order for an lx1, it should be arriving in a week or so.

anyway, found a site with heaps of samples and tests. Check it out:
http://portal.lumixclub.jp/blog/lx1/profile.html

you might need to use a translator to translate it.

1:59 pm - Saturday, October 8, 2005

#502 rollo

Hi all! Another question on LX1, noise and management of light. I shoot the same picture (exactly the same, with same light) with my new LX1 (4/3 format) and my old Powershot SD40, both at 100 ISO. The light was correct and the pictures were both well exposed, but LX1 at 2,8 shooted at 1/80, the Canon at 2,8 shooted at 1/160.

Now it's correct to think that the noise problem on the LX1 could be a bug of the CCD firmware?

4:38 pm - Saturday, October 8, 2005

#503 GARY POGODA

Seems we've run into the Y2K problem on the LX1 thread. I do not
see anything past comment #500 (posted by Nick) on the comment
page. I will email Mark about the problem.

Until then, all we can see are the notifications by email, which do not
identify who posted the comments, so I suggest manually typing your
name at the bottom of your comment ... like this.

GARY POGODA

P.S. Comment#501=Jem, Comment#502=rollo

5:16 pm - Saturday, October 8, 2005

#504 AA

Which Sony video camera are you talking about, Nick?
The one considered buying was the new small HDV, the HDR-HC1, but that actually has a 4x3 sensor in it.
And the HDR-FX1 does have 16x9 sensors, 3 of them, but they're only 1MPs each to make their 3CCD setup.

Of course, if you want to spend thousands of dollars on Professional cameras, you can, but I don't think anyone here's even thinking about buying a broadcast-level HD camera, so nevermind that.

But going back to the LX1 -
it's a real shame, for us consumers to be left out in the cold like this without any sort of statement from Panasonic as to what's happening to the supply. I'd hate to keep saying it over and over again, but this is bad marketing on their part. I mean they should at least say something and post some information somewhere to let us know what is really going on.

I haven't been a broken record like this in while - in a while - in a while - in a while - in a.........................

5:26 pm - Saturday, October 8, 2005

#505 Rollo

What I have noticed about the LX1 is that in some countries the distribution is OK. In Italy the camera was available since the third week of september. Now I have it and I have to say that the noise is a problem, but I agree with (I don't see your name, can I call you broken record? ;-)) about the silence of Panasonic.
If you make a camera with a great lens, ergonomically correct, with a lot of manual controls, with raw format and for the same pic the copy in jpg...it means you are talking to a pro, or an enthusiast. This silence is really a bad thing.

Rollo

7:15 pm - Saturday, October 8, 2005

#506 GARY POGODA

Rollo, I think the difference in shutter speeds for the LX1 and SD400
could be attributed to a number of differences between the cameras,
the most prevalent being the lens size and quality. Still, I would think
that the LX1's 1/1.8" CCD would have better noise performance than
what has been reported. So maybe there is a firmware problem, or
maybe they put a 1/2.5" CCD in by mistake. :)

Saint Nick, could you open up your LX1 and measure the CCD for us.

Jem, I found that Japanese website too difficult to navigate.

Broken record = AA

GARY POGODA

7:23 pm - Saturday, October 8, 2005

#507 GARY POGODA

The Y2K problem is now fixed. Was that fast, or what?

Thank you, Mark.

7:51 pm - Saturday, October 8, 2005

#508 Rollo

Sorry Gary, but over 100 ISO the performance of LX1 is really poor. With regard to the difference of shutter speed between LX1 and SD400, I thought the same about the lens....but Laica lens are really better than the ones on that model of canon: so LX1 should have a faster shutter. Don't you think so?

Rollo

8:09 pm - Saturday, October 8, 2005

#509 GARY POGODA

I thought the same thing about the lens differences, until I looked into
the SD400's claims of its two ultra-high refractive index glass molded
aspherical lens elements, which may just be hype.

Another big difference is the CCD size, 1/1.8" for the LX1 (in 4:3) vs.
1/2.5" for the SD400, which means different focal lengths were used
to achieve the same crop. And what about the difference in metering
between the two cameras?

All this would have to be taken into account to compare the difference
in settings before concluding there was a firmware error in the LX1.

8:44 pm - Saturday, October 8, 2005

#510 nick

Gary, I think you got it right with #509!
AA, I just glanced at the number of 16x9 displays that are listed in my reference, I did'nt research further as to sensor sizes. This image size is the future for us, I think, I think that was what I was thinking about... Sony models..HDR-HC1, HDR-FX1, DCR-HC90, DCR-HC41, DCR-PC1000, DCR-DVD403, DCR-DVD203. I have no idea if these Japanese models are just for here or available there, in the Real World! I think that the HC-1 is something special, actually it is very close to the FX-1! Gotta roll, I hear those Cosmos calling! Also, Good try Gary, we all know you really are!

10:53 pm - Saturday, October 8, 2005

#511 AA

Nick -
Eventually, the 16x9 format will become the standard. I think we can all agree upon that fact.

Jem, Rollo, Gary -
I looked at some of the photos in the Japanese blog about the LX1 and - the NOISE is unacceptable. I', looking at some of the B/W shots and they are bad.

And so far, NO ONE has shown me a LONG EXPOSURE photo! That's all I ask, just a couple of long exposure photos, one inside and one outside, at night. THAT, should tell us what the noise is really like.
If the noise is this bad on a "snap shot" situation, then I don't want this camera. I can't do anything with it except to shoot bright daylight photos at the slowest ISO. And that would be a shame.

Panasonic, what are you doing? What are you hiding?

3:08 am - Sunday, October 9, 2005

#512 stupidlammer

indeed. anyone cares to share a long exposure photo? my mail is @ entry #103. Thanks

3:24 am - Sunday, October 9, 2005

#513 Li

In future, 16x9 will be our only choice because all screens (TV, laptop, etc) are moving to widescreen format. Now if we take pictures with a 8 mp camera, the only way to appreciate it will be to print it to poster size. But if we take 100 pics a week, then it makes a lot of sense to just view them on widescreen instead of printing every one of them (that would be like going back to the film days).

The only hitch is the best screens now are only about 1 mp (even 52" screens). But I think it will improve in the near future and we'll start seeing 3 or 5 mp screens soon. Otherwise there is no way to view our 8 mp pictures without printing them to poster size.

The companies are selling 4x3, 3x2 cameras with 8 mp and also 16:9 widescreen displays with 1 mp. This means we'll have to keep buying cameras and screens to match the format and resolution! Nice move ..

8:37 am - Sunday, October 9, 2005

#514 Li

Just had another thought about the noise thing. What happens if the 5.5 mp option is used along with higher iso? (keeping the 16x9 format)

If the resolution is reduced, the noise level may improve because I read somewhere that the noise level is increased by cramming higher resolutions into the same size chip. Since Ronnie and Nick are the only people actually having the camera, they can try it and let us know.

Personally I don't care about the noise because the daylight images are just fantastic. Even dpreview's sample pictures are all perfect except for the church shot.

8:51 am - Sunday, October 9, 2005

#515 rollo

AA, I put two test pics took with long exposure at

http://rollo.my-expressions.com/

both are at 80 ISO, the problem with noise is over 100 ISO. I'll put some shots at 400 as soon as possible.

10:56 am - Sunday, October 9, 2005

#516 GARY POGODA

Li, the reason why cramming more pixels into the same size sensor
creates higher noise (with all other factors being equal) is because
the higher density of pixels yields a smaller pixel size, which means
less light absorbed per pixel. It's like cranking up the volume on an
audio amplifier to hear a low level signal. By doing so, you will hear
a lot of static, i.e., noise. Using an 8 megapixel CCD, and cropping
it to 5 megapixels only makes matters worse since the pixel size is
still the same, which means the same amount of noise, but now you
have to enlarge the image more, so the noise is even more visible.

Hope that helps.

6:24 pm - Sunday, October 9, 2005

#517 zymonk

Here's another Japanese LX1 site with sample pic's.
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/longterm/2005/10/07/2319.html

I shoot mostly in bright light and the camera seems fine in that situation but with all the samples out there now, low light scenes do seem to be a bit problematic.

9:53 pm - Sunday, October 9, 2005

#518 AA

Rollo -
Thanks for the pics. The night time stuff looks pretty bad.

And thanks friends, for keeping (some sort of) hope alive!

A lot of people, it seems, are content with posting pics to the web or showing slide shows on their TVs or computers. If this is the case where the photos are going to be "fitted" (resized) to the appropriate screen, then I think the camera is fine in most situations. Unless you're zooming in to a particular area of the pics, not too many people are bothered.

See, the thing for me is that I want to PRINT photos.
I print very large photos a lot. I like to do it, and I enjoy putting my lab guys through their paces to get my poster sized pics looking good!

And so far, I don't think this camera is built for that. I think there is a limit, and I think that limit is under 19 inches. Anything larger and the noise will be obvious.
But I suppose that is not so unreasonable, considering that the sensor is small, and this is a compact digicam. I'll call it the "tranining wheel" of digicams in a sense, as this camera will TEACH people and train people to see with the 16x9 framing and get them used to that composition!

So I'll call it a good start - I think I had my expectations way too high! What was I thinking?! This is a compact "snapshot" "point-n-shoot" digicam that just happens to have a lot of nice features added at a great price.

In my ideal world, the 16x9 framing will be transposed to a sensor size equivalent to 35mm film (with the extra width). And I suppose that is probably on its way. At a hefty price.

12:52 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#519 Nick in Japan

Li... Just sent you an untouched picture from about 2 hrs. ago... I could get real nice 20"X30" pictures from my Sony F-717, whatta ya think about this one as a poster? I am still amazed at these gorgeous images I'm getting, got 66 from the LX-1 and 45 from the 828 at the Botanical Gardens in Hiro this morning, gotta get them tweaked and resized, be busy the rest of the p.m. with that , I'll send more later....

3:44 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#520 zymonk

The answer to all of our wishes and desires may be Leica's digital M which is rumored to debut mid 2006. They will surely learn a few things from the LX1/D-Lux2.

3:46 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#521 GARY POGODA

CMOS image sensors are the key. They provide for lower noise than
CCDs by allowing larger pixels to be packed more closely together for
a given image sensor size and pixel count.

In addition, noise reduction hardware can be integrated directly on the
CMOS image sensor, which removes noise before it is captured, unlike
firmware noise reduction that removes noise after it has been captured
via interpolation techniques at the expense of image detail.

5:57 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#522 Nick in Japan

.......as proven by Canon! Panasonic, needs to get out of bed with Leica and invite Canon and Samsung under the covers for some seious stuff! Right-on AGAIN, Gary!!!

6:15 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#523 GARY POGODA

Canon has the most cameras with CMOS image sensors. But Sony
is the first to use a high resolution CMOS sensor in a non-DSLR with
their DSC-R1 (the camera you are using for a boat anchor). :)

6:46 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#524 Li

I think a good camera that is easy to carry and fun to use is any day better than the best camera that sits at home and never gets used.

A lot of my friends have bought prosumer models and digital SLRs but never use them because of lack of dedication/convenience.

Again the best displays are only about 1 mp so we have a long way to go before they get anywhere near 8 mp and by then we would've got our 'ideal' camera.

Talking about ideal camera, can you add a 24-200 fully retracting lens please?

7:41 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#525 Nick in Japan

Right again Gary! Still wishing for all your great hints to be taken to heart by a major maker! I noticed in my new Shutterbug that the thickness of the LX-1, they now have advertized ,is still 1" !!!!! Maybe we are completely wrong in assuming anyone except our little group reads this blog... I sure hope Samsung , or Panasonic does, competition is so keen that more blunders by Sony could hurt them bad! I am going to send Mark a couple shots I got today, the LX-1 sure has the right coating combo, no PL needed when the angle is right , for sky shots, the trick is to ensure that exposure is near correct, a too dark sky brings out the dreaded noise, big time. I shot nearly the same amount of pictures with the F-828 today, and got , about, the same grain, in similiar pictures. The R-1 is a nice looking "Beta", too bad that it will be useful in a studio, mostly. Samsung has some good ideas, I'll be watching them closely.

7:52 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#526 ronnie

and the blog goes on. hi guys i was out shooting all weekend. a jobo, the lx1 and a d70 are all i needed to have a blast at the photo workshop. i'll post some of the pics taken with the panasonic from this weekend. all of the photogroup really loved this little camera. i shot with it about 30% of the time. some of the nighttime and dusk photo's came out really well - lx1 is great with color saturation and sharpness. a few niosy ones when blown up to 50 x33. :-) going to test some neat image on those!

d70 pics came out really well too. see ya.

8:05 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#527 ronnie

oh, and lee, the sunset pic was handheld. the IS2 works really well on this camera. and for me, the ideal camera, or anything elase for that matter, is the one that i'm using right now.

8:08 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#528 GARY POGODA

Nick, are you sending Mark pictures to post on this website?

Ronnie, sounds like you are having fun. Looking forward to seeing
your shots.

Li, the Ricoh Caplio R3 ultra-compact has a 28-200mm lens, but I'm
not optimistic about its noise performance. I agree, the convenience
of an ultra-compact is just as important as quality. Fortunately, with
today's technology, we are able to have our cake, and pocket it too. :)

8:16 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#529 AA

Li, tell your friends I said that they need to stop being so lazy if they honestly want some quality photos. Heeheeheeheeheeheehee!
But seriously, not to mock your friends or anything but - have they ever seen a photo-journalist? You know, those guys who take photos at sports matches, concerts and shows, award ceremonies, political rallies - you know, the guys who take the photos for the newspapers and magazines? Look at what they're carrying - AND they travel with their gear.
Let's not get in to the debate of what a good camera is based on individual needs - since we all have differing needs. Personally, I can't live without staring through a SLR/TTL viewfinder! I don't enjoy holding the camera away from my face and looking at the LCD - it's unsteady and more often than not, the composition comes out incorrect and the focus points aren't very good either.

And as I have mentioned - try PRINTING some at the maximum resolution at maximum paper size to match - you'll see what I mean.


Nick -

I think we're alone...... very alone......
who the hell else reads this crazy blog of more than 500 posts, made mostly by the few of us crazed-maniac-chatterboxes, on the same subject over and over again?! Heeheeheehee
Certainly not the manufacturers - we would've heard something from Panasonic by now, I should imagine!

Still - keep the insightful stuff coming, everyone!

:lol:

8:18 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#530 Nick in Japan

Gary, I sent some just to Mark's e-mail, as a crazed-maniac-chatterbox, I can muster up words, not the reply to the death-dealing critisism that AA would deal me, I got enough negative things in my life. I send pix to people that are interested enough to reply personally, and, remember, I do this as a hobby, I'm not as versed as you guys, especially you and AA, that live and breathe the tech stuff. I dont display images on the wide screen, dont even use it as a monitor (This Sony has the option of using the TV, Notebook or both) I just print a few now and then for sending to my son at his vacation villa, and complimentary shots for my models, mostly, just store them for posterity and do the e-mail thing, not complicated at all.

10:50 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#531 Li

I considered Ricoh R3 sometime before but its not good enough mainly because of its 4x3 format. That means I'll be seeing the pics only on 75% of the screen. The rest would be those annoying black bars on the side. I feel the 28 mm lens is wasted without the 16x9 format.

Real professionals carry all the weight because they make their living out of it. Whereas most of us (and definitely all my friends) have to work full time and get very little free time. The only time we can persue our hobbies is on weekends and even then we'll have to consider the family, kids and friends. They'd be waiting for a week for your time and you just can't walk out for photo shooting sessions. That means when you go out you'd already be loaded with all the 'essential' things (essential according to the wife and you better don't argue) and a camera needs to hide somewhere with the least amount of fuss.

So a compact which does a reasonably good job is better than the best professional camera that you can't carry at all. I really hope panasonic is now silently fixing whatever problem they had and will release it soon.

10:57 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#532 Li

As for printing, none of my friends print any of their pictures at all! I personally have about 10 kg of photo printouts and decided not to print anything in future.

Well, I do print one or two pics to big size - but thats for framing or for gifts. But not more than that simply because it would be very expensive and I don't have place to keep them! But even then I got some good sized printouts (bigger than A4) from just 3.2 MPs. So probably about 5 MP is the maximum we'll ever need - for printing and viewing in screens (for casual non-professional use).

11:15 am - Monday, October 10, 2005

#533 Li

So quiet for so long? Very unusual for this blog ??

11:00 pm - Monday, October 10, 2005

#534 nick

Long week-end, here in Japan and America too.....It's you and me buddy!!!

1:02 am - Tuesday, October 11, 2005

#535 AA

Ahhhhh shuddup some of us have to work ya know...

Some of you already know what the photos look like, but

Check this out:

http://ad.impress.co.jp/special/lumix0507_3/

you can click on the images and the full size versions will appear. Can you tell that the dude is quite pleased with the camera? Well OK then...

The qualities are about what I expect from a compact.
The photos are better than most compacts thanks to the lens on the LX1, I guess.

In these photos the Black one looks nice.

1:11 am - Tuesday, October 11, 2005

#536 nick

Li.... Translate #525 for me will you!

2:15 am - Tuesday, October 11, 2005

#537 nick

# 535, GOMEN!! Wow how did we get to 537 so fast?

2:17 am - Tuesday, October 11, 2005

#538 Li

Translate #535? I wish I can. Actually I know more words in Greek than in Japanese ..

After the rants in 531 and 532, I was thinking more on the subject of time and quality photography. The only flaw in my argument about sticking to a compact for the sake of convenience is I'll end up NEVER taking some photos I really want to take (like sunrise).

So I'm seriously thinking about getting a second camera that has no quality issues. Probably a canon 350D or Sony R1 - both sound like good beginner level tools that can grow with me. But I really want the 16x9 format so may be wait for 400D or R2.

Now the biggest hurdle is the 9 to 5 job. Actually its misleading because its a 8 to 8 job if you include the commuting. I need to think of some way to wriggle out of it and get some quality time ..

11:37 am - Tuesday, October 11, 2005

#539 nick

Gary sumed it up very well when he expounded about sensor size, as long as we use the small sensors we will need to accept the fact that some grain will plague us, no matter how good the lenses are, the good news is that the impact of a picture is not measured by the lack of grain... and, pros are people that sell pictures, not necessarily a measure of their skill! There is no such thing as a "Bad" picture, just, that some pictures are better than others. Folks will tell you you need an expensive camera to produce great images, WRONG! It's all hype! You have pictures in that pile that would win contests, we all do... Photography is so subjective that for every person that comments on something there will be that many total variations in opinion. What ever camera you have will do great sunrise/sunset pictures if you apply your best efforts to the camera's functions, always keeping in mind it's limitations. Camera makers will hype us right into believing anything! You will be amazed at the beautiful pictures you get with your LX-1, not because of the 16X9 aspect, but for the color rendition and overall image quality.... I'm sure "Pros" will be using it too! The beautiful Ricoh GR Digital has , maybe the sharpest lens in the world, but it is wasted on the small sensor, quality appears to be vey similar to the LX-1, from the images posted that I looked at. Your comment about getting an R1 is scary, sure it's sensor is right, but the lens restrictions are cost prohibitive, plus that "F" stop is function prohibitive . Please don't beat yourself up about it, get out and shoot, shoot, shoot, you will amaze yourself. As I mentioned, SOON, we will have quality ( Low noise ) images, 24-240 zooms and bigger LEDs ( our proofing tool) . One parting shot, the Leica Digital M is a step in an interesting direction, I wonder if the large sensor is going to be installed, and also an adapter would allow the awesome Cosina "L" lenses to be used!! I'm getting excited. If they keep the small sensor , it will be just another point and shoot!!! A BIG BLING!!!

12:13 pm - Tuesday, October 11, 2005

#540 GARY POGODA

Nick, I did not understand your comment about the cost prohibitive
lens restrictions for the Sony DSC-R1, since it is not a dSLR ???

6:22 pm - Tuesday, October 11, 2005

#541 nick

Add up all the extra costs of the accessory lenses that you would need for general photography, add that cost to the camera cost, also add the fact that you will have to buy a back-up camera with a lens that has a larger aperture so you can have some decent pictures. Add the cost of the assistant you will need to carry all this, and that is exactly what I mean. You have been our answer-man, did you just want me to say it again for our small viewing audience? Sony is too busy testing things to put together a semi-pro package, where is the IS from the H-1? Where is their lens department, they almost got it right with the H-1!! Gotta get my stock options over with Samsung or Panasonic, too many disappointments. Nikon has the answer with their CMOS type sensor in the D2Hs, did you see the sample images of the ISO ratings? UNBELIEVABLE!!! Talk about no noise! And from 4 mb... ! AWESOME!

10:29 pm - Tuesday, October 11, 2005

#542 GARY POGODA

You forgot to add the cost of the extra paper and ink you will be using
to print all those gorgeous images the R1 will yield. With the D2H, we
are comparing apples and oranges, as the D2H SLR costs over 3x as
much as the fixed lens R1. Yet, their noise specs are almost identical
up to and including ISO 1600, even though the R1 gets 10 megapixels
into a smaller image sensor than the D2H with 4 megapixels.

But the slightly heavier D2H would make a better boat anchor. :)

4:42 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#543 Nick in Japan

What I was eluding to was the fact that sensors that have the ability to produce great pictures are out there, for some reason the merge of quality parts isn't happening... Glad you elude to your true feelings of the boat anchor selections that are growing and growing. Let us know how many smiles per mile you get with your R-1 Bling Bomb! ( Especially when you fit a PL filter on it, oops! Maybe you cant put a filter on that wide adapter, that should get you near f-8.... good thing you can crank up the ISO so you can get a decent shot!!)

5:01 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#544 AA

Hey guys, it's me!

I've been surfing, looking to see if any more news or developments have come out in the U.S., but alas I found zip -

but here's a few interesting things I found:

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2005/08/25/2147.html

http://review.japan.zdnet.com/digicam/panasonic-lumix-dmc-lx1/editors/lx-1.html

http://shopper.cnet.com/Panasonic_Lumix_DMC-LX1/4014-6501_9-31456442.html

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/18433&mode=info


Now why can't U.S. websites do more comprehensive examination of stuff like these Japanese ones? I was quite entertained to see some more detailed shots out of the LX1 at these sites.

And then the shopping continued..... but I think I'm still sketched out about buying it from one of these places that are selling so cheap -

then the software for the camera in the Adobe Photoshop Raw converter..... all ready to go with both the LX1 and the D-Lux 2, which tells me that the 2 cameras are, basically, identical, and people are only going to be paying for the "bling" factor if they were to buy the Leica one.

Cheers!

6:35 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#545 Li

The pictures in the first link are very good because they've used iso 80 in most of them. They've shown higher ISOs just as a test. But the pics in the second link are terrible because they've used higher iso all the time, even for indoor portraits. Its as if they've made up their mind to show how bad LX1 is.

One question for those who are already using it: In aperture priority mode, do we have to set ISO 80 every time the camera is switched on? The reason I ask is all the good pics are taken at ISO 80 so I intend to keep it permanently in 80.

7:33 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#546 Nick in Japan

AA..Now that you have seen the pictures that the LX-1 creates, I think you'll agree that the 16X9 aspect ratio is the ONE thing that sets the LX apart fof the rest of the cameras. It's hard to explain the awe that you get from the images. Sure there is grain, we dont have a very expensive tool here, maybe down the road, soon, lottsa money in programs to correct noise, everyone is profiting from the grain except the consumers. We demand better, we will get it, in the mean-time there are lottsa scenes out there begging to be photographed, .... Just do it, AA, If you are dissatisfied, I'll give you fair market value for your used LX-1, yep, I LOVE mine, especially at the Botanical Gardens in Hiro the other day, no need for tripod, nor flash in the big tropical greenhouse, nice sharp shots, wish I could say that for my F-828, had to save that for outside... The IS is awesome!!!!!

7:36 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#547 Nick in Japan

Once it's set it doesnt change, I have never seen a camera that would do that... I think you are thinking about "Safety Shift" which will change aperture/ speed on some cameras... My T-70 canon had it, insurance policy... never ASA/ISO

7:40 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#548 nick

Li, now that you have seen my LX-1 pictures, please tell AA your opinion... and, you are correct about asa80, mine is set , it will never move......

7:44 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#549 Li

AA - Nick's pictures ended the debate for me. The proof of the camera is in the pictures and LX1's pictures are just delightful :-)

Now I'm not an expert who has handled a lot of camera (just 1 in my long two years experience) but the LX1 picture quality is stunning. The best ones are closeups that are shot in 16x9 and viewed in a widescreen.

He also sent some pics taken using a more expensive camera (canon 10D I think) which looked very ordinary when compared to LX1. That shows it is the expertise that matters and not the tool, as long as the camera is a decent one.

As for the main issue of noise in LX1, I've not noticed it in any of Nick's picture (and also in dpreview's samples, except for the ones shot at over 80 iso). May be if I blow it up to 100% and look from 2 inches away, but I'm avoiding that habit now (I used to do that for a brief period).

Personally, I've made up my mind to buy it asap, just for the 28 mm lens and 16x9 combination. And by the time I learn the intricacies of it, we'd get the ideal camera we desire - probably LX3 or LX5 ??

10:32 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#550 GARY POGODA

I wonder if the LX1 will be on Panasonic's recall list for the recent CCD
problem that has plagued the industry.

11:02 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#551 Li

just as a ps, I wish to write about why the sony R1 is appealing for me. It gives the promise of a DSLR quality images with none of the hindrances of it.

For those who are used to compact cameras, an LCD is a must to compose pictures. Without it, I won't have any clue .. Also a lot of time I take low angle shots for kids, water, etc. It takes a lot of commitment to wade into the water or to lie in the ground just for one shot. Not for me ..

Secondly, a movie mode is also a must. R1 doesn't have it but its next incarnations will hopefully include it because if they have to sell to people like me, they'll have to include it sooner or later. I don't think those who are happy with DSLRs are going to switch to R1 because it would be pointless.

As for the fixed lens, its better than having to carry two or three lenses and change them and to worry about dust, etc. If it has a decent range, then its fine.

I'm sure I won't buy R1 but wait for next versions, to include the movie mode, 16x9, reduce the size and weight and hopefully include better lens. For now the LX1 is much more than what I need. And if panasonic upgrades the chip in the LX1 series, I'll stick to it.

11:03 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#552 nick

You have an excellent point Gary! Wouldn't it be wonderful if they did, and increased the appeal of this break-through camera! Lottsa folks will shy away because of the grain in the ISOs above 80. With the IS system there is no need for me to go higher, I think that their 3 stop IS advantage is about right... 3 stops equates to 3 ISO changes, from 80, that equates to ISOs of 160, 320 and 640.....so who need's them??? I seriously doubt Panasonic will do anything , what could they do anyway, do a fix that would do nothing except soften the final image? No-way.... This is primarily a scenic, portrait camera, not an action camera.

11:24 am - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#553 stupidlammer

Panasonic Singapore have just posted an enthusiastic review written by HardwareMag:
http://203.163.64.107/panasonic/storefront/ContentDetail/ConsCatList.asp?contentId=2628

4:31 pm - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#554 GARY POGODA

I would not put too much faith in that review. A quick glance of their
specs shows they posted the incorrect sensor size, lens focal length,
lens optical/digital zoom, LCD pixel resolution, and price.

6:40 pm - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#555 nick

But, they were honest about the noise!!!!

10:20 pm - Wednesday, October 12, 2005

#556 ronnie

been following an lx1 post at dpreview check out this guys raw lx1 pics

http://www.pbase.com/newrinternationa/lx1raw_jpegs

the dpreview thread is here

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=15398932

12:31 am - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#557 stupidlammer

the price is correct, S$999 is about US$587, anyway, it was ripped off from the mag revew, i didnt see the mag review myself, but i would think it should have been less erroneous.

3:07 am - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#558 AA

Ronnie -

All I can say right now is

Hmmmm.........

since I don't own one!

But, to do a comparison of sorts for myself to make sense of it -
I kind of do the exact opposite, if you will, of processing my Nikon shots to make them SHARPER!
Because, in the end, the Sony chips are soft on the touch in the Nikons - at least that's how I find them to be.
And usually, after some time spent staring at the razor sharp pixels of the LCD screen I have in front of me, zooming in and out of photos to see the effects of processing, the pixels sort of become annoyingly obvious to me, which is when I sort of stop processing them from getting too sharp, and then I back off from there to get the right look to the photos.........

And reading what that guy did to make his photos to even out, or level off from its noise down to a more mellow photo, I just had to laugh!
Because when I shoot with my Nikon DSLR, I add on in-camera sharpening a tad, and go for more contrasty pics to get away from flat-looking photos!

So it sounds to me like I will going from the the other end of the spectrum to the other to get to the middle, as it were!

Makes you think though, doesn't it? We'll forever be debating whether processing photos in computer to that point, is bringing the photos closer to more of a "digital-art" than what the "real" feel of a photo would be, I think.

But damned that 16x9 framing! I know I know, Nick, Gary et al, the 16x9 is THE reason to buy the camera, as we all have said.

4:46 am - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#559 Nick in Japan

No, No, No, AA, it's the combo, 16x9, AND the IS system in this neato package. Sensors are like personalities, all different, I actually got some shots in the glass, hot- house where the orchids are ready now, that didnt need ANY tweaking in Photoshop, a first for me with handheld, no- flash, snapshots. It's, actually, more than the wide aspect, vivid colors unique to this sensor too!

6:00 am - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#560 GARY POGODA

It is not like this is a major investment, where you would be building a
collection of lenses and accessories around the camera. You pay the
$600, and you get a nice little toy to play with. If you get a year of joy
out of it, "Don't worry. Be happy". :)

S'lammer, I did not notice the 'S' in front of the $.

So I guess you could say, "The Price Is Right". :)

7:48 am - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#561 stupidlammer

well, its understood that its S$ cos its a local tech mag here in Singapore.

10:23 am - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#562 GARY POGODA

On CNN they showed a camera built into a medicine capsule, which
when swallowed, would take pictures of your entire digestive system
for display on an external monitor. Pretty amazing.

There was no mention as to whether the camera was recoverable for
the next patient to swallow. :)

9:31 pm - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#563 nick

Yea, but was there a funky ccd or a nice Canon CMOS, or better yet, a Nikon CMOS type sensor used used in it??? probably it will be made by Sony, just one more boat anchor !!

10:16 pm - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#564 GARY POGODA

Seriously, I was wondering what kind of image sensor they had used.
Probably CMOS, just for the low power drain. The lens was probably
the capsule plastic itself. I still cannot figure out how they managed to
get enough light in there.

Probably an external flash attachment capsule. :)

10:53 pm - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#565 nick

LED has very low power reqirements, looks like the Image stabalization concerns would be the biggest challenge, great idea with all this, but, I will trust the good old colonoscopy scope made by olympus that I have to endure every few years...

11:04 pm - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#566 GARY POGODA

I hear Leica's D-Lux 2 has a colonoscopy scope digital adapter. :)

11:12 pm - Thursday, October 13, 2005

#567 nick

Yes, that's for all the "Bling" owners to use, so they can have some interesting shots they can send to OTHER Leica owners.

12:16 am - Friday, October 14, 2005

#568 AA

Gary's lost it.

Heeheehee

1:22 am - Friday, October 14, 2005

#569 nick

How are things with you, AA? Have you decided what to do? You have so intense feelings about things, I'm dying to hear your opinions on the LX-1, or, really anything you get. I wish the LX-1 had a Wide aspect CMOS sensor for you, your demands would be better served, It would have more possibility to be a viable back-up for you. Oh! I found out today that my friend in Hanford, has been talking with a Pro in that area that has him thinking very seriously about the X version, about $1500 more, seems like Adobe can align with software it needs..

1:51 am - Friday, October 14, 2005

#570 AA

How do I feel? Well let me tell ya..... punk!
Heeheehee

I feel fine. I know that the LX1's sensor is mighty small in comparison to APS-sized DSLR sensors that I am finally used to using, after 4 years......
The photos from the LX1 that I am seeing are about what I should've expected, and I'm warming up to it......

I'll still wait until November and see what happens then.


Ummmmm........ the X version? You mean the D2X? For sheer quality coming from a sensor with more pixels, it's worth it, I think. The speed of the camera isn't all that bad either. It's a lot of camera tech for a good price.

2:06 am - Friday, October 14, 2005

#571 nick

Sorry I asked, from your talk I'm sure you are a bull-dyke now, on the rag too, again !! Yikes!

3:53 am - Friday, October 14, 2005

#572 nick

This blog is a bit too insulting for me, gotta be better mannered folks out there, some of you are just too weird for me! Been fun to a point, I wish you all well, and happiness together, Sayonara....

4:10 am - Friday, October 14, 2005

#573 AA

Huh.....? Whaaaaa.........? Hunh.......? Whaddaya tawking abaaaaaaaat.....?

Yeah goodbye yeah we don't need ya old schizophrenic geriatrics like you hopped up on pills prancing around someone's else country with a Superiority complex that measures from here to there, a head so big that we can all hit it from way over there!
HAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!

Now was that insulting enough for you, you "I'm so much better than you cos I have so much time on my hands because I have an obedient japanese wife and family who don't complain much about anything and do everything as I tell them so that I can tinker with my toys and post silly comments about how much better I am cos I am so much more better mannered than them" person of foreign origin living in a country he believes has people inferior than him!

Yeah yeah yeah we know the real reason why you're there!

And this is all very very very funny to the rest of us, of course!

No sense of humor, you know, really, you have none at all, except to think than by calling someone a bull-dyke that's being funny and not insulting, oh no, no sirrreeeeeeeee!

Ai ai captain sargent colonel major punk ass dickwad useless turd! Ai ai!

4:55 am - Friday, October 14, 2005

#574 AA

Oh yeah and ummmmmmm I'm only joking, of course.

5:18 am - Friday, October 14, 2005

#575 Mark Goldstein

Could you all get back to talking about the camera, and continuing what I'm sure is a valuable resource for anyone interested in the Panasonic DMC-LX1?

9:52 am - Friday, October 14, 2005

#576 Nick in Japan

Mr. Goldstein, I apologize for my thin-skinned nature, just so many insults directed to not only myself, but Ronnie, that I felt compelled to return the favor. Not very mature , I know. I guess Ronnie should be commended for just turning the other cheek and hoping the problem goes away. The Japanese have a word for that , it's called "Gaman" . I always believed that if you dont say "No" you are saying "Yes" . Being a first time blogger, thanks to you, I have learned a big lesson here, kindness is considered an invitation to attack. I have expressed my opinions on the LX-1, for whatever it matters, extended my help and suggestions here and there , and have a few folks that e-mail me that I enjoy, I want to thank you again for your encouragement and advice. Life is too wonderful to be involved in a marriage that doesn't work, divorce is the viable alternative in this case. Thanks to Gary, mostly, I am a much more informed consumer, Thank you for your chuckles too, Gary.

10:37 am - Friday, October 14, 2005

#577 AA

Like I was saying, you're schizophrenic - either that, or you're a hypocrite.
You're definite a chicken and like to cop out like a little putty-cat.

You have not been kind, you have called people many names in the past, and all you have to do is go back and look at what you have said!
You certainly called me a number of names on numerous occasions - you may have thought it funny from where you're sitting, but since you are to thick in the head to realized that other people have feelings besides your own opinions on certain subjects, you go ahead and walk away calling it "a divorce."
"Life is too wonderful to be involved in a marriage that doesn’t work, divorce is the viable alternative in this case."
Just typical. So typical. Not willing to stick it out and work it out. You know what's that's called? That's called displacing responsibility and being ashamed and not accepting the fact that you can't handle your own guilty feelings and it certainly indicates that you can't look after or take care of anything because you're too much of a bigot.
And it's also such a huge statement about hypocrisy and contradiction that I am not surprised at all to read this sentence, coming from you.

"I always believed that if you dont say “No” you are saying “Yes”"
Yeah well you would, because you're just full of excuses, buddy!

And yeah, we ALL have opinions on the camera. Yeah I may not own it yet, but that's why I am here at this blog trying to get more information. But yeah I also have been shooting digitally for a few years and yeah we all know you have as well, so stop acting like you don't know how to use the damned computer!

Oh yeah and by the way I am going to buy the Leica version for myself and a couple of my buddies so that I can get a nice discount from my connection over here when it comes out, cos, you know, being in L.A., Hollywood tells us that it's all about the BLING BLING. Without the BLING BLING you don't get anything in this town! My friends are itching to buy this camera, and they are going to get some lessons from me on how to shoot RAW and use the converter in PS. For them, the camera is going to be a massive upgrade, as they do not know how to use MANUAL controls whatsoever. They understand the concept, but have never had tried to shoot manually in the past. But since the LX1/D-Lux 2 is going to be the compact camera with all the bells and whistles, including the BLING BLING factor, we all think it's going to be the TALK of the town in Hollywood. In fact, we know we're going to look good wearing it. But lucky for them, the photos are going to look so much better than what they experience now with their all-automatic ultra-compacts.

4:41 pm - Friday, October 14, 2005

#578 ronnie

I got my 32MB SD card from Broadway photo. Whooopie! OK, back to work! And AA, Nick, I never took any offense. It was all in good sport.

5:31 pm - Friday, October 14, 2005

#579 ZZ

AA, you seem to spend so much time typing out your posts. too bad no one really reads them anyway. with the crap you talk about. now lets get back to talking about the lx-1 shall we.

8:07 pm - Friday, October 14, 2005

#580 AA

Yep some days I have more time sitting on my fat ass than others!

MAde you spend those precious seconds typing out those words here though, didn't I? Just shaved off a few seconds off your life, didn't I?

Now back to driving in my car for the rest of the day taking photos......................... ciao

8:38 pm - Friday, October 14, 2005

#581 GARY POGODA

AA, don't get your hopes up for the LX1's RAW mode. It really slows
down the processor, which might be worth it, if the combination RAW
plus JPEG mode produced a Fine quality JPEG. But it only produces
a Normal quality JPEG.

Maybe Nick or Ronnie can give us some actual RAW mode shooting
times. If you do, please specify the size and speed of your SD card.

Ronnie, you might want to keep that 32 MB card with you at all times.
Besides the aforementioned restaurant use, you never know when it
will come in handy for an emergency. That was nice that they sent it
to you. Makes me think they are a reputable dealer after all.

Has anyone noticed that this particular thread is becoming very slow
when submitting a comment, or when just accessing for reading?

9:49 pm - Friday, October 14, 2005

#582 AA

Gary -
Speed's not too much of a concern as, I think I have mentioned before, I mostly shoot scenery and not moving objects. Right about the JPEG, but still, having the option to shoot Raw is nice to have, just to have that shot to use later if I think it would be a better shot.

Funny though how it is so hard to get our hopes up for this camera! I'll keep my hopes from ballooning too much, and remind myself that the camera is small enough to be wrapped up by one hand!

The thread had slowed down before - I thought it was because there are a lot of posts. And I mean a lot. A lot.

1:23 am - Saturday, October 15, 2005

#583 GARY POGODA

I forgot that you had mentioned that before. See what happens when
I neglect to review all previous posts on a daily basis.

Have you asked your Samy's connection when they will be getting the
D-Lux 2 at their store?

8:38 am - Saturday, October 15, 2005

#584 Mark Goldstein

Just to let you all know that Amateur Photographer (a UK magazine) have reviewed the DMC-LX1 this week, along with the DMC-FZ30. They awarded the DMC-LX1 81% and the DMC-FZ30 75%. Biggest gripes about both cameras were "too much noise, and too much image processing".

10:35 am - Saturday, October 15, 2005

#585 GARY POGODA

Don't forget, that 81 score is UK%. To convert to US%, multiply by
2.2 lbs/kg, and then divide by 1.8 USD/GBP, which if I did the math
correctly, gives a final score of 99 for the LX1. Not too shabby. :)

Seriously though, that is interesting they would criticize the LX1 for
overprocessing. I can understand the noise criticism, but if you go
back and read Nick's descriptions of his LX1 images, they were all
"spectacular", "beautiful", and "gorgeous".

Nick, any comment? Ronnie?

8:36 pm - Saturday, October 15, 2005

#586 Nick in Japan

Images are ambiguous, I was, and continue to be, excited about taking pictures with this camera. I tried to decribe my feelings as kinda like the first time you got the images back from a medium format camera. There are factors both positive and negative with this camera, no doubt, the noise that creeps in being the only thing that is really of any importance, and that is compensated by the fact that the IS system lets you shoot at ASA/ISO 80, or 100 in low light, with great results. I visited that site that was recently posted, the photographer did some portraits of, his Daughter, I assume, shot at ISO 100, Just Absolutely Wonderful, which tells me that ISO 100 may be of use for portraits. I dismissed using it all together prior to this, now, I may use it for portraits only. Today my Family and I will visit the Tokuyama Zoo, I can't wait to use the LX-1, the percent of "Wow" pictures it produces is higher than any other camera I have used. Why? I think it is the combination of the 16X9 ( 3x2, 4x3 have become so-so now ) the color renditions of the sensor, lack of the dreaded fringing that I was accustomed to with the F-828, and the wonderful IS system.Parting shot, if indeed Leica did buy up alot of the available stock of LX-1s' for repackaging and resale as their own model, then one can assume that Leica thinks enough of this product to risk their reputation on selling a Panasonic camera with their LOGO attached!! Noise and all!!

10:54 pm - Saturday, October 15, 2005

#587 AA

Do you guys know this software program called Noise Fixer from FixerLabs?:

http://www.fixerlabs.com/New_Website/pages/noisefixer.htm

The feeling I get from photos that have been processed in PS or similar kinds of software is this:

More noise = sharp
Less noise = blur

(loosely defined, that is)

How much can software actually "fix" photos?
I'm not very good with computer programming language, so I couldn't describe to you how algorithms work, but I always wonder where the fine line is drawn as far as how photos can be considered "good, focused, clear, well exposed" etc etc....?

I wonder what would happen to the LX1's noisy photos when processed through an application like NoiseFixer from Fixerlabs?
Would anyone care to try and give us some feedback?

6:07 am - Sunday, October 16, 2005

#588 Li

Got the camera today at a 'special' London price of £375 ($660) - now those of you buying at $500 should not be complaining at all!

The first impression is its more difficult to use than sony P8, which I always used in the auto mode. The 512 mb sd card (Jessops brand - claims 12 mbps write speed but it can't be) is quite useless because it is SO slow even to write snapshots. Forget about the movie mode .. I'm planning to order the 20 mbps panasonic card from panasonic website.

7:31 am - Sunday, October 16, 2005

#589 nick

Li.. Is that Australian $ you are talking about? I suspect you are shooting TIFF or RAW, try JPEG , highest setting, using this camera will be tricky at first, getting easier and easier as you learn about it, please dont beat yourself up, it's very common to have high expectations for everything new, takes a bit of patience to get the "feel" of it, then things will get better and better. AA... I too have the same questions, I think that from what I have found with the combinations of filters in CS2, and playing with the pixel count, interpolation, that every picture has it's limits, some are very easily retouched with the "Reduce Noise" selection , or with a slow adjustment to Gaussian blur to the picture and an erasing the areas that didnt have much grain, leaving the blurrin to smooth out the grain, and then an unsharpen adjustment until it all looks good. I automatically do a sharpening on all my pictures, and luminence/ color increse because I prefer vivid pictures. Everyone has their own preferences, that's what makes it so difficult to recommend something to someone, as to what to try or do. Your site about the plug-in looks like something really nice, an addition to Photoshop as they say, my question is this tho... What photoshop are they referring to, 7, or CS2 ? CS2 seems to have a very elaborate variety of tools that works for me. PS... with grain showing up in a disturbing way in ONLY the sky, it's easy to isolate the sky and apply a bit of blur to rectify the problem... of course this all requates to time, which seems like there is never enough of.. Thanks for that site, interesting, hopefully someone has gotten it and tried it.....

9:52 am - Sunday, October 16, 2005

#590 ronnie

i do think that the panasonic overprecesses collors a bit. you can tel this by shooting a raw pic vs a jpeg with the lx1 then with your nikon, canon, whatever..... jpegs look about the same (generally). jpeg vary.

it's well that nikons have a truer color rendition than most digitals, canon is very good too. lx1 jpegs are at the other end of that spectrum.

yada yada yada.....:-/

5:34 pm - Sunday, October 16, 2005

#591 GARY POGODA

Congratulations, Li. Nick's right, you'll get the hang of it.

So we have one confirmation from Ronnie that at least the colors of
the LX1 seem a bit overprocessed. Nick still thinks the pictures are,
(in addition to all the other adjectives, now we can add) "Wonderful".
So that leaves Li as the tiebreaker, but he will need more time to get
acclimated to the camera.

The true test of a good camera is what you can get hooking directly
up to the printer. With Photoshop, you can make any picture look as
if it came from a dSLR ... "not that there's anything wrong with that". :)

6:35 pm - Sunday, October 16, 2005

#592 Li

Nick, I meant 500 USD - I thought it was selling for something like 499 USD. Anyway, nobody can beat UK prices. We are privileged to pay the highest prices in the world!

I would've jumped to the conclusion that its a bad camera, if not for the pics that Nick had sent me. I KNOW its all somewhere inside the camera and I have to bring it out. I'm still wondering how - I've taken about 100 pics from it but my wife says they all like look like the ones taken by P8!

One thing I've learnt is not to use the 'Auto' function like I used to in P8. Then the pictures are no good at all. Now I'm using the 'Aperture Priority' and getting much better pics.

Also, the SD card works fine with 16x9 16 fps movie mode and the quality is quite good. This mode is ideal for kids because they move so fast and it is impossible to get crisp pictures. 16 fps is smooth and the details are much better than the sony movies and the file size is also smaller than the 30 fps movies.

Now I've dropped the idea of buying the panasonic sd card and instead spend the money on buying the QuickTime Pro to convert the movies to avi format so I can see them on the media center using the remote. Why can't they agree on a common format for these files?

11:12 pm - Sunday, October 16, 2005

#593 AA

Don't worry Li, Nick was just being facetious as usual...

Listen to your wife, she knows what she's talking about - that it's the photographer, not the equipment! Heeheehee! Just kidding........................!

Why would you not shoot at 30fps? What's the point of shooting at 16fps (16? Really? You mean 10fps, right?) I think you'll see that you'll want to shoot at 30fps when you show it on your TV, and when you use Quicktime Pro to do some editing. 10fps is such low resolution, it staggers a lot and looks pretty darn poor. I've been using Quicktime Pro for a long time now, it's a pretty nice little tool to some basic video stuff. And it's pretty cheap.
When you say "crisp" pictures - do you mean to try and use some of the video images to extract and print still images out of one of the frames of video? I would love to know what that looks like, if you ever do that. That sounds interesting, even though the motion blur is going to be pretty obvious. At least you could make some sort of cool looking art shots out of them, may be?

12:04 am - Monday, October 17, 2005

#594 AA

I forgot to ask about something:

MANUAL FOCUS.

How is it?
Accurate, fast, easy? Annoying, cumbersome, bad, slow?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

5:49 am - Monday, October 17, 2005

#595 Li

The pics were same between P8 and LX1 mainly because we were looking at indoor snapshots taken with flash. I don't think any camera will be different with these shots.

It is 10 fps. But still the quality is the same 848x480 pixels. Because of lower frame rate, the movie is not very smooth. But still it is good enough for me because I take a lot of clips and more worried about the space in my harddisk. I'm planning to take more clips with kids where I can't use flash indoors and 10 fps mode creates one third file size. By crisp I mean good quality and focus with lot of details unlike P8, mainly because of higher resolution.

AA, if you're using quicktime pro, have you converted mov files to avi? Is the quality retained? I need to do this to make it work with the media center.

Nick or ronnie will be the best people to comment about manual focus. I tried it once and needless to say it was disastrous. I still haven't figured out why we need manual focus when the camera itself can do it automatically.

10:46 am - Monday, October 17, 2005

#596 nick

I used manual focus yesterday at the zoo, sorry , but it was with the F-828 and not the Lx-1, the bars of the cage wouldn't let me focus on the bird behind in autofocus. I haven't had the necessity of using the LX-1 in manual yet, soon, I suspect. You will need manual focus for instances of this zoo situation with bars, or screening that distracts the autofous, as well as , probably the most common problem, that of shooting thru a window, the window glass will sometimes ( alot of times ) cause the focus to be on the glass and not the object beyond, most cameras have a quick-fix, they allow you to select "infinity" and be done with it, needless to say if an objest isn'e at infinity it will again be out of focus. Sometimes when you focus a subject that is reflected on water, shiny surface or a mirror, the reflective surface may become the point of focus, therefore, manual focus is needed.

12:01 pm - Monday, October 17, 2005

#597 AA

Li -
the file size may be smaller and that MAY be better for keeping in the computer - why not buy a bigger external Hard Drive for safe keeping and shoot everything at max resolution? The 848x480 is NOT higher resolution - you simply have 208 pixels wider than it would be if it was a 4:3 framing.
Video resolution is all about the frame rate.
And 10 years from now, when you want to take a look at how your kids were, you will have wished that you had shot everything at a higher frame rate, so why not shoot it at 30fps?

For Divx, look here:
http://www.divx.com/
http://www.manifest-tech.com/media_pc/avi_formats.htm

But you need to go somewhere else for more questions about Video - because I hate to talk about it here on a blog about a STILL camera. If you're serious about video, then you should buy a HiDef video camcorder like the Sony HC1 - and then you can shoot 16x9 video, as well as 2 Megapixel stills for displaying on your 16x9 HDTV which, as you have pointed out several times, that it's only 2 Megapixels. You're right - but it's the frame rate/refresh rates/ scan rates that make it HiDef.
At 10fps, no video codec is going to make a single bit of difference. Because the standard for Video is 30fps. That's what you're seeing on your TV screen. When movies are adapted from its 24fps, it goes through what's called a "3:2 Pulldown" process to make it adapt to 30fps.

Anyways -

Thanks for the tip on the manual. I figure that's how it would be. I couldn't have expected much from a button-push manual control without an optical viewfinder. The camera at least has an LED or some indicator to tell you that it's in Focus, right?
May be it works better in Macro.....

2:22 pm - Monday, October 17, 2005

#598 stupidlammer

for use of a circular polarizer with this 28mm gem, what size of a polarizer am i recommended to hold infront of e lense to prevend any type of vignetting ?

4:19 pm - Monday, October 17, 2005

#599 ronnie

haven't really used the manual focus. played with it a bit. it seem that unless you have this little camera on a tripod, manual focus would be a pain. it's kinda strange too a little magnified box pops up in the lcd and that's what you focus. i'd use it for macro.

okay, just a warning. went out to the city (san francisco) and took a ton of pics (my wife just got her 8800 back from nikon). anyway about 40 percent of the 90 pics i took were RAW. the uncompressed 8mp files are huge, i mean huge and really clog up my system when downloading, burning to cd. but the pics turned out great! easy to flip betwen compression modes too. just hold down the joystick in p,s,a or m. and you get a compression, iso, mp size, white balance management window.

circular polarizer. the one i'd use for this camera is probably photoshop or nik filters.

5:28 pm - Monday, October 17, 2005

#600 Li

Nick, got the idea behind the manual focus - though I doubt if I'll ever use it.

AA, the extra 208 pixels are important because without that the widescreen display shows the movie with black bars on the sides or stretch it and make it look wierd. I agree with shooting in 30 fps. 10 years from now, definitely I'll want the best quality. The 10 fps is still usable so may be I'll use both depending on the situation.

I've been resisting the idea of getting a camcorder because of the hassle of carrying two set of devices, batteries, chargers, etc. Also, the short clips are much more interesting than hours and hours of video. Its just a personal preference ..

8:23 pm - Monday, October 17, 2005