Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX2

July 19, 2006 | Mark Goldstein | Digital Compact Cameras | 481 Comments |

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX2Panasonic Press Release

Panasonic today introduced the Lumix DMC-LX2, successor to the DMC-LX1, which has received high acclaim worldwide for its unique 16:9 wide CCD, plentiful functions, and smart design. The Panasonic DMC-LX2 inherits the f/2.8 28mm wide angle LEICA DC lens, 4x optical zoom (equivalent to 28mm to 112mm on a 35mm film camera) and MEGA O.I.S.(Optical Image Stabilizer) system in addition to an enhanced CCD capable of 10.2-megapixels and larger 2.8 16:9 wide LCD. The Panasonic DMC-LX2 is unique in that it incorporates triple-wide features of 28 mm wide angle LEICA DC lens, 16:9 wide CCD and 16:9 wide LCD. Not only that, the L X2 is further distinguished from other cameras by its full manual controllability with a joystick allowing users to easily enjoy creative shooting. The DMC-LX2 also boasts Venus Engine III high performance image processing LSI to dramatically reduce the noise that challenged the predecessor, realizing image recording at max. ISO 1600 high sensitivity setting at full resolution.

To fight against the major cause of blurred images, Panasonic invented the MEGA O.I.S. system taking advantage of its superior lens technology to compensate for handshake  a feature which has long been incorporated into the LUMIX range of cameras. In addition, to also compensate for the other major cause of blurred images  movement of the subject  the LX2 is also equipped with the worlds first* Intelligent ISO Control (hereafter I.I.C.) within the advanced image processing LSI Venus Engine III. When set to the I.I.C., the Venus Engine III detects the subjects movement and adjusts the ISO setting and shutter speed to best suit the subject movement and the light conditionautomatically. Panasonics excellent image stabilizing system allows users to take clear, crisp images in any situation automatically, leaving everything to the camera.

The LUMIX LX series are distinct from other compact cameras in the way they feature extensive manual controls including manual focus and manual exposure which can be smoothly operated with a joystick. This joystick further provides operation shortcuts to the frequently used settings including white balance, ISO, image size, compression format, light metering and AF mode by simply pressing and holding it. It also allows exposure compensation and selection of one out of nine focusing areas.

The aspect ratio is easily selectable between 16:9 wide, 3:2 and conventional 4:3 with a switch located on top of the lens barrel to shoot in the framing aspect that best suits the subjects composition or images purpose of use. In addition, the DMC-LX2 is capable of recording wide 16:9 high definition (1280 x 720) motion image at 15 fps.

The other features that elevate the DMC-LX2 is the incorporation of 13 MB of built-in memory while the battery life is extended up to 300 pictures* on one charging, not to let you miss those great spur-of-the-moment shots. A print mode has been added to the mode dial so that you can print the images quickly and bundled software allows users to edit and develop RAW files.

The unique 16:9 wide CCD and 28mm wide angle LEICA DC lens provide a unique view of the world and which is refined by the Panasonics excellent image stabilizing systems of MEGA O.I.S., the high sensitivity recording and the I.I.C.

The LUMIX DMC-LX2 is like no other compact camera, enabling both high-end amateurs and entry-level users to explore the creativeness that surely enhances the joy of shooting.

* Based on the CIPA standard.

1.10.2-megapixel 16:9 aspect CCD and f/2.8 28mm wide angle 4x optical zoom LEICA DC Lens

The DMC-LX2 features a 10.2-megapixel 16:9 aspect CCD and f/2.8 4x optical zoom 28mm wide angle* (equivalent to 28 mm to 112 mm on a 35 mm film camera) LEICA DC VARIO-ELMARIT lens. Incorporating three aspherical lenses provides high optical performance while preserving the compactness of the unit. The aspect ratio can be easily selected between 16:9 or 3:2 in addition to the conventional 4:3 with a switch on the lens barrel on a shot-by-shot-basis to best suit the composition of the image. Even after shooting, the 16:9 ratio can be converted to 3:2 or 4:3 with the camera according to your purpose of use.

The Extra Optical Zoom, made possible by using the center part of 10.2-megapixel high resolution CCD, further extends the zoom ratio to 5.5x for 5-megapixel image recording in 16:9 aspect with minimal deterioration.

* In 16:9 aspect ratio.

2. More than just a MEGA O.I.S., LUMIXs image stabilizing system further evolves
Taking advantage of its superior lens technology, Panasonic invented the MEGA O.I.S.(Optical Image Stabilizer) to fight against the major cause of blurred images. It compensates for handshake and is now featured on the entire LUMIX range, and having been highly evaluated and appreciated by the users across the world. Every slight hand-shake movement is detected accurately with the sampling frequency at 4,000 times per second and will be compensated to render clear, sharp images. In addition, movement of the subject, the other major cause of blurred images, is suppressed by the advanced image processing LSI Venus Engine III with the Intelligent ISO Control (hereafter I.I.C.) and max.ISO1600 high sensitivity recording capabilities. The worlds first incorporation* of this I.I.C. allows the automatic adjustment of the suitable ISO setting and shutter speed that best suits the situation by analyzing the speed of subject movement. If the subject is moving, the ISO setting would automatically rise to allow high shutter speed. On the other hand, if the subject is still and no movement is detected, you can take beautiful natural images with a low ISO setting.

?Accordingly the new LUMIX automatically takes the best countermeasures against any causes of blurred images with MEGA O.I.S. compensating for hand-shake and the I.I.C. compensating for movement of the subject. Image stabilizing system is further evolving with LUMIX.

*For a digital still camera, as of July 19, 2006.

3. Dramatically reduced noise with Venus Engine III
The DMC-LX2 adopts the Venus Engine III to realize high sensitivity recording at max. ISO 1600 at full resolution. The noise reduction system is greatly improved by removing noise at the processing stages in series. First, critical noise is roughly undraped and the chromatic noise and the luminance noise are separated to respectively go through the supplemental noise reduction process so that the remaining noise is appropriately minimised.

Despite the significantly increased performance of the camera, the Venus Engine III consumes only 80% of the power utilized by the Venus Engine II and is able to achieve a longer battery life of 300 pictures (CIPA) on a single charge. With its multi-task image processing capability, the Venus Engine III also boasts outstanding response time with a shutter release time lag of as short as 0.009 sec*. minimum and the shutter interval of 0.6 sec*. The DMC-LX2 enables easy capture of those spur-of-the-moment shots. The DMC-LX2 also allows unlimited consecutive shooting up to the capacity of the SD/SDHC memory card**.

* Not including the time for AF.
**The number of recordable pictures depends on the memory card size, battery life, picture size and image compression.

4.Joystick-operated intuitive full manual control
The easy-to-use joystick operation and good design, which were part of the highly acclaimed trademarks of the predecessor, are inherited by the DMC-LX2. The joystick was incorporated to facilitate operational ease and thereby get the best technical advantage of the multitude of functions offered by the camera.  With the joystick it is possible to set focus and exposure manually, and also quickly shortcut to frequently used variables by just pressing and holding the joystick even while monitoring a subject on the LCD. The predecessor LX1 contained white balance adjustment, ISO setting, image size setting and compression format in its shortcut menu, and the light metering and AF mode settings are now added for the new LX2. It also allows the exposure compensation and selection of one out of nine focusing areas.

A switch on the side of the lens barrel lets you quickly change the focus mode between MF, AF or Macro AF. When you focus in the Manual Focus mode, not only the focus distance but also the DOF (depth of field) according to the zoom range and aperture is displayed. An MF assist function enlarges the center of the image to make focusing easier. The focusing area can be enlarged up to 4x and is movable, which also contributes to easy and comfortable manual focusing.?

5.Crystal-clear, large 16:9 wide 2.8-inch LCD
To express the best of the extensive 16:9 wide image recording, a 2.8 wide and large 207 k high resolution LCD is newly equipped. The pixel mixed readout method performed at the CCD achieves high sensitivity to offer sufficient brightness for easy shooting even in low-lit situations.  The Power LCD function boosts the brightness level by 40% to secure clear view even in sunny outdoors.

The High Angle mode makes the display extremely easy to view from low angles, for example, when holding the camera up high to take pictures over a crowd and can be accessed easily and quickly by using the dedicated button.

6.  High definition 16:9 wide motion image recording
The DMC-LX2 is capable of recording the 4:3 VGA(640 x 480) and 16:9 wide VGA(848 x 480) motion image recording at 30 fps. Shooting is one thing but viewing is another, and you will be suitably impressed by the 16:9 moving image when it is displayed on a wide screen TV. In addition, the LX2 can record motion images even in high definition (1280 x 720) format at 15 fps. The pixel mixed readout method assists the bright motion image recording even in low lit situation.

7.  Faster AF
The AF mode can be selected according to the shooting situation: 9-point, 3-point high speed, 1-point high speed, 1-point normal speed and Spot. In the 1-point and 1-point high speed AF mode, the AF area is selectable from the nine focusing areas with the joystick to best fit the composition of the subjects. Also, the AF assist lamp helps quick, accurate focusing in situations where focusing is difficult due to the lack of light. The AF/AE lock button is also succeeded from the predecessor.

8. A Variety of Scene Modes and Other Features to Enrich Your Photography
An even larger variety of scene modes are contained  a total of seventeen* scene modes to assist you in a wide range of photographic situations. The newly incorporated Beach mode is perfect for shooting in strong sunlight and the Aerial mode assists with shooting through the windows of an aeroplane. High Sensitivity** mode is made possible by the pixel-mixed readout method by the CCD, is ideal for shooting moving subjects clearly without blurring at a maximum sensitivity setting of ISO 3200.

For additional improvement, the Print mode is also added to the mode dial of the LX2 so that you can make prints by just connecting the camera to Pictbridge -corresponding printers via included USB cable. Of course you can get plural prints of a image or print only those you have selected as your favourite.

The DMC-LX2 includes 13MB of built-in memory to serve not just as a tool of shooting images but also as a digital album, to enjoy seeing and showing your favorite pictures.

Finally, to edit and develop RAW files, SILKYPIX Developer Studio 2.0SE software application is included with the DMC-LX2. With that, you can freely adjust various setting such as exposure, white balance, and so on afterward with the RAW files to take maximum advantage of digital camera photography enjoyment.

*Not including Macro Mode.
**Resolution significantly decreases in high sensitivity mode.

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX2



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#1 nick in japan

Can't wait to see how the test results look! Looks like Panasonic is trying to make some positive additions. If they post the REAL thickness of this model, I'll like that too!
Is this going to be the back-up, compact camera, for pros that we all have been waiting for? I doubt it, I'm still reading " CCD "
Maybe too much to hope for, 97% of all photos are 4x6, or smaller, thats the market target, got my finger's crossed tho!

12:06 pm - Wednesday, July 19, 2006

#2 GTC

I'm all over it.

6:05 pm - Wednesday, July 19, 2006

#3 dougB

If they get the noise reduction under control, they have a winner. ;-P

2:26 am - Thursday, July 20, 2006

#4 Patrick

It looks great alright but why the proprietary li-ion battery instead of AAs? Sigh.

10:42 pm - Friday, July 21, 2006

#5 nick in japan

Patrick, proprietary batteries are seldom universal in their use, therefore we have a way to sell related stuff on a continuous basis, but, in the case of the LX-1/2, the size allotted for a power source is very limited. For it's design/use, Panasonic has extended the image rate to about 300 shots, that's alot of images on one charge, kudo's to Panasonic!
Note: there is a spec listing out there, I was hoping the published thickness of the camera would be accurate, it is not,they still insist it's about an inch thick, it aint! Its about 2" thick!! BOO!( False advertising has always turned me off! lies tend to compound themselves!)

11:34 pm - Friday, July 21, 2006

#6 marcosan

It is indeed disingenuous for them to list the thickness as 1", and I also agree that lies compound themselves. I'd NEVER buy this camera until the overeager test-monkeys weigh in with their full report.
I wonder if Panny could ever reduce the thickness of this type of camera and lens...sure would be nice, but physics may dictate otherwise.

4:51 pm - Sunday, July 23, 2006

#7 nick in japan

Marcosan, I agree, Leicapao squeezed 2 million more pixels in that same sized 16x9 sensor, and Gary has alerted us to problems that develop when you do that! The compensating "Fix" is the new engine that processes all that info the sensor originates. Only real determination is exactly what you said, feedback via reviews, that is plural!
I'm a collector and anxious to see if this model qualifies as something that is break-through, right now, I have my doubts.
I do believe that lens construction is determined by various reasons, they could have done the collapse/ folding / small lens thing I'm sure, but cost and quality may have been a factor, as well as the simplistic mode selectors that are attached to the lens barrel. Switching to 16x9, 3x2 and 4x3, as well as infinity/ close-up selections are very well positioned and probably decided upon to also give that retro look somewhat. It is small, but not left-breast pocket comfortable, for sure. I love my LX-1, but it's a love/hate relationship, just gotta work around the weak areas! It's strong areas keep it in my ready-bag!

10:53 pm - Sunday, July 23, 2006

#8 nick in japan

That should have been, "Leicapano", or Panaleica"

10:55 pm - Sunday, July 23, 2006

#9 kirk

The LX2 is not perfect, but it sounds like the best point and shoot available, by far. Look at the competition. First, the LX2 has a nice size Leica lens, instead of those teeny tiny ones. Canon's SD700IS does not even offer RAW, plus no manual mode, no 16:9, no 28mm, only 6MPs, and costs more. No thanks.

The noise might still be a problem, but Noise Ninja does a great job. Canon's noise is hidden through in-camera processing, which cannot be nearly as good as post-processing. Plus, I would never shoot JPEG. Never! And, that's all the other point & shoots offer.

The black LX2 will be my next carry everywhere camera. Thanks Panasonic!

11:19 pm - Sunday, July 23, 2006

#10 Marcosan

Yeah, sure wish they hadn't tried to squeeze the extra 2mp on that tiny sensor..would have been better to build a new one, but much more expensive.
I also wish it was "left breast-pocket comfortable", but we all must make compromises.
If the camera addresses the noise issue, then the only things lacking for me would be its size and lack of flourescent light setting.
Otherwise, I'll take mine in black...even though I'd normally prefer silver. The black looks totally cool. :)

12:04 am - Monday, July 24, 2006

#11 nick in japan

Re-tooling for an increase of sensor elements is something I can't talk about, Gary can I'm sure, but whatever they have done it is probably due to the balance/ coordinating the existing size relationships of the lens and existing parts of the camera. I'm assuming that the new processing engine III works well with the pixel increase. Knawing at the bit about this, and, the new L1.

3:14 am - Monday, July 24, 2006

#12 TS

An Optical viewfinder would be a nice addition. But, the LCD is very high resolution, with 207,000 pixels. A larger image buffer would help. A new larger CCD would be great. But, all-in-all the LX2 is what I have been waiting for.

I agree with Marcosan that the black looks cool, plus I like that the lens barrel is now black, as well.

4:48 am - Monday, July 24, 2006

#13 Marcosan

Actually, I think it's the black barrel that gives it its cache. :)

5:16 am - Monday, July 24, 2006

#14 Bill Eally

The most complete XL2 description is here:
http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/lumix/lx2/index.html

I believe the lens protrudes because it has controls around the barrel and this protrusion (when the lens is closed) is about 40% of the total body depth. While it should make good prints, the LX2 is not primarily a printer's camera. It's designed to be used with Panasonic's Slide Shower (DMW-SD1, $130) which connects the LX2 to high definition, wide screen TVs. I'll be using mine with a video projector and a 80" wide screen. I see the LX2 as a reasonable alternative to Ricoh's GR D which costs $200 more. As for batteries I don’t think leica and double A’s should be mentioned in the same breath.

2:40 pm - Wednesday, July 26, 2006

#15 Bill Eally

I'd like to correct my previous comments. The DMW-SD1 doesn't connect directly to the LX1.
It accepts SD cards from the LX2 and maybe other cameras. As an aside, if you think the LX2 is an appealing camera, check out Leica's version. No droopy corners on that puppy!

2:57 pm - Wednesday, July 26, 2006

#16 Marcosan

"I don't think Leica and double A batteries should be mentioned in the same breath."

I LOVE that quote!! :)

Which Leica is equivalent to the LX2? I thought they had an LX1 equivalent, but has an upgrade been announced???

4:05 pm - Wednesday, July 26, 2006

#17 TS

Hey Bill, there is no D-Lux3, or puppies on Leica's site. And, why is it bad to pay $200 more for different camera (GR-D) and OK to pay $200 extra for the exact same camera (Leica)?

4:09 pm - Wednesday, July 26, 2006

#18 Marcosan

Kinda cool if Leica can pocket an extra $200 based solely on their name.

4:16 pm - Wednesday, July 26, 2006

#19 Inter

You guys must all be new to photography or are bunch of really bad, long-time amateur photographers who are too lazy to learn anything or make good use of what is available, who act like a bunch of professionals but actually have no idea what you're doing!

I can almost guarantee that your friends and family can take much more interesting and creative photos with their camera phones than you lot can with your expensive cameras that you haven't learned to use properly, the way you guys talk!

I am dying to get my hands on the new LX2. They say it's been much more improved than their last version, and I believe it. It's been over a year since the original LX1 was announced! The LX2 has a few more features and a whole new chip and programming, it will be better than the last one.

7:40 pm - Wednesday, July 26, 2006

#20 Marcosan

and which side of the bed did we wake up on this morning? Why all the vitriole? As it so happens, I AM a newbie, so beat me please.

9:47 pm - Wednesday, July 26, 2006

#21 nick in japan

Marcosan.. There has been alot of discussion about the LX-1, please set-aside about half a day and read the longest thread in history, at this site. The LX-1 has a noise issue, but, it has features that are break-through. Noise can be fixed, it's just time consuming. I use my LX-1 daily, even have a back-up if it poops out on me. The LX-2 may have solved the noise issue and incorporated some more new things that may be considered "Break-through"
Leica and Panasonic are, and ,have been, in bed together for a long time, I consider them one company. Some folks need a "Bling" name to ensure their reputation remains intact, therefore, the D Lux-2 evolved.
The company has continually touts the thickness as 1", it is actually about 2" thick, alot of us take offense to that. There are people that will see 1", and, not checking, will buy the camera expecting it to be thinner than it actually is! Boo!
A camera that is 1" thick will carry easily in a shirt pocket, NOT a 2' thick model!
I have a LX-2 on order, black.

11:16 pm - Wednesday, July 26, 2006

#22 Marcosan

thanks, nick. Out of curiosity, do you shoot in RAW or Jpeg? A photo buddy of mine says he always shoots jpeg with his dSLR and doesn't like bothering to convert and jerk around with his photos. Do you think the LX2 will be satisfactory as a jpeg p&s'er? Yes, it'll be nice to use its features as a learning tool, but as a beginner, I'd like to know that I can take some good jpegs without much fuss. It's either this cam or the F30, and the wide aspects ad OIS of the LX2 outweigh the F30 in my opinion. Thoughts?

11:25 pm - Wednesday, July 26, 2006

#23 nick in japan

Marcosan..First of all, IMHO, buying a camera revolves around a couple of things, your shooting routine and what you expect to do with your images. Having a SMALL camera is what alot of folks like, I carry in my ready bag the LX-1, Pentax S6, Kodak V570 and the Sony F828, usually in my camera bag it's the Canon D20 and "Bigma". I do birds and flowers daily, nudes occasionally, and now that the Kids are out of school, my Children daily.
If your style of shooting will allow you to carry different cameras, they will all do different things for you, if not, carry what you BEST need! When I shot film, I always brought 5 or 6 cameras with me for the same reason, differnt lenses, different films, all giving me the tools I needed. Sometimes one camera won't be used, but the tool is there if needed.
I usually just do 4x6 prints and e-mail images, so JPEG is fine for me. If I have a picture I really like , I will convert it to TIFF, and store it.
I have never done Raw, except as a trial once. It is the best way to capture all the data, and to have the very best image you can get, fine for Pros and big blow-ups. The downside is "Time" and space, alot of data to store and play with. I shoot 20-40 images a day, and have my Mr. Mom duties too, so I just dont have the time to play with RAW. JPEG is fine for me, but we all march to different drummers, so what suits you best is what you should shoot for. Try them all, compare, read opinions and then decide. Photography is just a hobby for me, important that I capture what I can, because... life is just a memory!
Gotta run, Kids want to go to the waterfalls swimming...I'll be back, it's almost 0800hrs here in Japan.

11:50 pm - Wednesday, July 26, 2006

#24 Marcosan

Thanks, Nick. I just want a single general-purpose camera, not too big, and don't want to have to shoot raw. Simple, no? ;)

12:07 am - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#25 nick in japan

If, thats IF, a camera has a great lens, a sensor that handles noise well, will have a starting focal length of 28mm, and has a moderate zoom, then I believe by going into Photoshop is smart for that extra zoom we all want. Lottsa folks want the ultimate zoom right in the camera, I'm of the thinking that zooming in photoshop, along with a bit of interpolation and tweaking , is all we need. The trick is to have a sharp picture to start with, noise free.
Maybe the LX-2 will fill that bill, maybe!

4:30 am - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#26 Inter

I think you're talking a load of bull, nick from japan, whoever you are.

If you're such an expert & professional, we would all appreciate it if you would please post a link to your website showing your works on it, showing your various photographic styles, techniques, and cameras' results.

Otherwise, none of us believe anything you say, and we think you should be quiet, because it's a lot of talking with nothing to back it all up.
I'd thought about the extent of what you say, and sometimes you make good points, but you write so much, it all begins sounds like an amateur, a wannabe, trying to compensate for his lack of actual knowledge and professionalism.

So, please show us all the varieties that you describe, with all those cameras that you say you claim to own, including all those film cameras you say you have, and you are obviously one who can say that you have tried it all in the past with various kinds of film, so please show us.

I would be particularly grateful if you would post some excellent examples of the varying degrees of quality from the LX1 you so brilliantly describe.

Thank you.

4:31 am - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#27 nick in japan

Sorry to offend you Inter, never claimed to be anything, especially a professional!
You are welcome to see my collection of cameras, slides and negatives from 1980-now, I am not in need of posting anything on a website, I share my images with people I like, family and friends.
If I have helped someone along the way with my thoughts and ideas, I am very happy.

5:01 am - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#28 Marcosan

and I appreciate it, Nick.

Inter, even if you feel that Nick doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground, you might try a little more civility. I come here for help, not verbal abuse and accusations.

5:29 am - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#29 nick in japan

Thank you Marcosan, I would be happy to e-mail you, feel free to contact me at
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) anytime! I just started working on images from this morning with the kids. Happy to have your support!
You just qualified for "family and friends"!
Semper Fi!

5:50 am - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#30 jmw

just a question for Inter from Japan. Did you take lessons to be such a little man or are you naturally an tiny minded and such an ill-mannered uncivilized little creature?

3:18 pm - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#31 TS

Hey Inter, how about posting a link to your photos, because I would like to see what kind of images an asshole takes. Sorry I meant pinhole.

3:27 pm - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#32 TS

Marcosan, if you are not going to shoot RAW, there are plenty of other point-and-shoots you should consider. Have you checked out the Canon SD700 IS (IXUS 800)? 4x zoom, image stabilizer, optical viewfinder, 6MP. Plus, the prices are falling. About $425 here in the US. It's also smaller than the LX2.

3:39 pm - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#33 Marcosan

You're welcome, Nick. Muchas Gracias. :)

3:42 pm - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#34 Marcosan

TS, yes I'm still looking at the Canon and the Fuji F30 as well. I'd hate to give up the wide angle, though. :(

4:53 pm - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#35 nick in japan

Marcosan, TS is correct! The competition is increasing, there may be some gret deals this summer, Canon makes some awesome point and shoot cameras, I get images from here in Japan and also from China, Canon is VERY popular, for good reason.
IMHO, if you choose a camera without 28mm, you will be , really, narrowing your field of view, so to speak, and yearning for more angle!
I think the competition will get pretty heated because I did a survey here, the digital market is wide open! The camera shop I surveyed is one of the largest around ( percentages are approximates)..Negative film processing= 60% of their business, digital=40%, of the negative, 35mm =85%, APS=15%

10:39 pm - Thursday, July 27, 2006

#36 nick in japan

Marcosan, I detect the initial symptoms of Pogodanoia," an overwhelming indecision about the purchase of a camera"
I would like to help, please e-mail me if you have not made a firm commitment yet.

1:40 am - Friday, July 28, 2006

#37 Marcosan

Indecision? You have NO freakin' idea! You wouldn't believe how my friends harass me, and I won't tell you how long I've been procrastinating over this.
I'll email ya when I get a chance.

5:04 am - Friday, July 28, 2006

#38 nick in japan

Thanks! I'm usually on/off-line 0600-0700, 1200-1600, 1700-2100 Japan time, alternating between photoshop and internet.

6:54 am - Friday, July 28, 2006

#39 Patrick

>> "I don't think Leica and double A batteries
>> should be mentioned in the same breath."
>
> "I LOVE that quote!!"

Interesting response. Do you reckon that Leica would've gained their level of reputation, brand support and success if, during the era of the mechanical 35mm era, they had used a proprietary sized film?

Are these new Leica's no longer worth owning when the manufacturer chooses to discontinue manufacturing new proprietary batteries for this model?

How many proprietary batteries does one need to manage a day or longer in the country shooting images and some video?

I'd rather keep using my great travel charger and an 8-pack of AAs even when my current cam becomes a (still usable) hand-me-down. And I fully expect my next batch of inexpensive rechargable AAs to have ever higher capacity as well, not to mention them being easily available ten, even twenty years from now.

Of course it is quite possible that the electronics of all these digital cameras will fail long before ten years is up, but that is another question about our increasingly disposable consumption culture.

8:00 am - Friday, July 28, 2006

#40 nick in japan

Amen! But, my little proprietary battery chargers work real well, all lined up, with their red, green and blue lights, like a real neat night-light!

8:22 am - Friday, July 28, 2006

#41 TS

Hey Patrick, how many posts do you need to make regarding AA batteries. AA batteries in digital cameras suck! They are large, and don't hold a charge. The LX2's battery will let you take 300 shots on a sigle charge. How about your AAs? Plus, the battery and charger come with the purchase of a camera, so what is the problem.

Nobody is agreeing with you on this one, so move on.

8:01 pm - Friday, July 28, 2006

#42 Patrick

I made one post saying I liked the LX2 but preferred AAs, and a second one elaborating why.

I didn't know it would upset the opinion queen of this board, but thanks for the amusement.

8:11 pm - Friday, July 28, 2006

#43 nick in japan

Let's all try a bit harder to be a bit more civil, I'm the one with the thin skin and I took advice from Gary a long time ago, and it works... don't reply to a posting until you have done ALOT of thinking before it's typed!
We have a great thread going here, millions of folks read it and we need to try and show a little respect for each other.
We are all in the same interest group and bubbling over with ideas and questions, we just gotta remember a very important word, "Brotherhood", if not for ourselves, at least for the owner/ moderator of this site, Mr. Goldstein.
Alot of us are frustrated that AA/AAA batteries arn't designed into a camera as the main, or back-up power system, some cameras just arn't big enough, or work better with a battery that is designed to fit into the only available space, and, the sales factor IS part of the equation too.
IMHO !

9:28 pm - Friday, July 28, 2006

#44 Kirk

Civility is good, but common sense would also be welcome.

Patrick wrongly suggested that AAs are a standard in digital cameras, which is certainly not true. Proprietary batteries are used in all kinds of electronic devices from cell phones, to laptop computers, to cameras. And, they are used to achieve certain design objectives like size, power, heat, and longevity.

Patrick went on to compare Leica's battery choice to 35mm film. A correct analogy would be to compare film to memory cards.

There's a lot to discuss about this new camera, like their proprietary lens, and their proprietary 16:9 format, and their proprietary image stabilizer, and YES their proprietary battery, as well. If it was not a proprietary design, there wouldn't be anything to talk about, or any reason to buy it.

12:59 am - Saturday, July 29, 2006

#45 Kirk

I forgot three more things.
1. TS might have been a little harsh.
2. I followed Nick's advice, and waited before posting.
3. Some conflict is useful and entertaining.

1:05 am - Saturday, July 29, 2006

#46 Spock

Hey Patrick -

"Of course it is quite possible that the electronics of all these digital cameras will fail long before ten years is up, but that is another question about our increasingly disposable consumption culture."

That's an interesting thing, isn't it?

Electronics changed everything in life as this technology developed in the 20th century - that idea of "keeping up to date" is an oxymoron in itself, not something that should be based on nostalgia or our feelings towards memory per se; without the ease of consumption in the way we are able to properly dispose of anything, we couldn't even go to the toilet and take a crap in peace and simply flush it down the drains! Know what I'm getting at here? The point is, everything we make regarding electronics include things that are actually becoming increasingly INDISPOSABLE, because a majority of the stuff is not bio-degradable.

2:04 am - Saturday, July 29, 2006

#47 Marcosan

Patrick, before we get back on thread regarding the LX2, I must indeed correct myself and acknowledge your concern regarding AA batteries. I'm of the opinion that products should indeed be made to last, and G-d forbid one of these cameras does indeed last 10 yrs, I too would be concerned about being able to obtain a power source. The camera should outlive the batteries, but I'm not up to speed on the proper storage techniques for Li-ion batteries or even what their storage life actually is.
If I'm gentle on my camera and don't damage it, is it completely ridiculous to expect that I'd be able to obtain a power source without having to look in antique shops 10 yrs later?...okay, maybe Ebay.

With film, yes, your camera can work 50 yrs later, but hear me now!...I'm NOT gonna wait for solar powered cameras.

Patrick, I did indeed speak too soon, but on the other hand, I don't want the bulkiness that AA's necessitate. A quandry???

2:31 am - Saturday, July 29, 2006

#48 nick in japan

In my camera collection, of mostly film cameras, MANY have a battery type that is no longer avalable, same with some medium format cameras that use film types that are no longer available readily.
Many proprietary batteries will interchange with like camera models, but unique to the company, so availability will/may be no problem, even after 10 years. Guess we gotta resign ourselves to the fact that we are at the mercy of the battery folks!
You guys may have problems if you still have that little beauty after that, I won't, I've only got about 15 years left, max, so I'm SAFE!!
By the way, I love you guys!

4:29 am - Saturday, July 29, 2006

#49 kirk

Back on thread...

Does anyone have any input regarding the new Venus Engine III? The TZ1 is the only model currently using it.

4:56 am - Saturday, July 29, 2006

#50 Newmie

Another back on topic question....

Can anyone provide input on the TZ1's video mode. I'll be upgrading from a Canon s50. My wife uses its video mode about as much as picture mode. So it looks like the TZ2 "could" be a nice hybrid option for us, right??

Does anyone think they would ever use the hi def mode on kids?

Thanks in advance.

PS before you say it, yes I have a camcorder ...GS400.

Newmie

9:30 pm - Monday, July 31, 2006

#51 Interesting......... NOT!!!!

"With film, yes, your camera can work 50 yrs later, but hear me now!...I'm NOT gonna wait for solar powered cameras."

How much difference will it make to you, really? More than likely you'll be dead in less than that, and you can't take any of this with you, so, really, so it's going to make that much difference to you, really?

All ya gotta do is go back 50 years from today, as a comparison, and then try to imagine what 50 years from now would be like - then you'll realize that none of what you're about concerned about will mean anything cos you'll be ####### dead.

2:53 am - Tuesday, August 1, 2006

#52 Marcosan

Sounds like you're trying to make an argument that it's ok for a $500 camera to be disposable...phhht!

I'm not saying that I EXPECT current digicams to last 50 yrs, but that I don't think that the lifespan should be dependent upon the availability of proprietary batteries. If my camera lasts a good 10 yrs, shouldn't I expect the batteries to be available then? Perhaps this is "planned obsolescence" on the part of the manufacturers?...give 'em a decent camera, but stop making the batteries.

4:21 am - Wednesday, August 2, 2006

#53 nick in japan

This battery thing is spinning out of contol, sounds like CNN, PMSNBC....Batteries are plentiful and will be, because we need them! I cannot see a manufacturer NOT making/providing batteries for ANY model they produce, if they did, the reputation of that company would a point of bloggers all over the world and result in a decline in overall sales.
Some old film camera batteries were phased out due to dangerous material content, mercury.

5:25 am - Wednesday, August 2, 2006

#54 TS

If you're worried about not having a proprietary battery 5 or 10 years from now, just buy a backup. They only cost about 20 bucks.

6:15 am - Wednesday, August 2, 2006

#55 Chuck

"Perhaps this is "planned obsolescence" on the part of the manufacturers?"

Hmmmm let's not call it that, that sounds harsh.

I think it's more like "inevitable advances in conveniences and people's fondness for new stuff"
just to put a more positive spin on it?

We all want to move ahead. Change. Better. And then all of a sudden, someone comes up with the idea that by attaching propriretary stuff, it makes it that much more unique (but we all know it's can also be looked at as pigeon-holing, branding). But it is convenient if you stuck to the same manufacturer, same line up product, etc etc.
Yeah they can also make more money, but if they did not make more money, there also would not be more new stuff!!!!!!

TS has a very valid point. Just buy several backups! Even those have expiration on them, I am sure, that they would go bad if you did not use them within a specific time period or something, but I am sure you'll be good for at least the next 6 to 7 years. Now go back and think what it was like 6 years ago and see what we had back then!

I appreciate all you guys' sense of nostalgia and all, but nostalgia is highly subjective and overrated!

6:43 am - Wednesday, August 2, 2006

#56 zymonk

With digital technology moving so fast it makes sense to keep a camera for 2-3 years then flog it on eBay and buy a current model. This then makes the battery issue moot. That said I really like the battery and well designed small charger that came with my LX1.

I've been eagerly awaiting the LX2 and have some mixed feelings about he changes/evolution. I took my LX1 on a 5 month trip to S.E. Asia this past winter and used it constantly with generally pretty good results. Here are some of my LX1 findings and LX2 comments:

1. The black lens and dial look really great. I wish the LX1 had them.

2. Why did they have to drop support for TIFF on the LX2? No one has mentioned this yet. I don't see this as an advancement. I shoot pretty much in TIFF exclusively with my LX1.

3. Fussing with the lens cap turned out to be as big a drag as I thought it would be. Travel for 5 months, taking pictures constantly and you will see what I mean. I really wish they would have put some threads in front of the LX2's lens.

4. The noise on the LX1 was problematic at times. Lets hope the claims about the Venus Engine 3 are not just exaggerated marketing hype. Time will tell.

5. One of my biggest gripes with the LX1 after using it so extensively turned out to be with the flash. I'm not talking about the size, power, coverage ect... which I think are fine for it's size. My complaint is with the setting options and specifically with Slow Sync. Why is it only available with red eye reduction and why oh why is Slow Sync not available in shutter priority and manual modes? This totally defeats the purpose of a Slow Sync mode and limits creativity. If you can't control the shutter speed you can't control the blur. Urrrr.

6. I haven't played with the film mode on my LX1 all that much but I am completely disappointed with the results that I did get. A short 30 fps 16x9 B&W film that I made looks like complete crap (blurry and lacking detail).

7. While I like the speed and convenience of all the manual dials & buttons on the LX1 I did find that a few times after shooting in macro mode and then turning the camera off and putting it away I forgot to put the lens in normal shooting mode when I next used the camera. This is easily missed and while the screen looks sharp, if you shoot normal distance subjects with the macro setting your pics will not be as sharp as they could be. This is mostly my problem but I wish the camera defaulted to normal focus every time it's turned on.

8. I like the LX2’s price drop but I'm not so sure about cramming more pixels on the already crowded sensor.

8:42 pm - Friday, August 4, 2006

#57 GARY POGODA

Zymonk, great feedback and evaluation of the LX1, as well as some
pertinent LX2 comments. Thanks.

2:26 pm - Saturday, August 5, 2006

#58 Loc

Does anyone have a recommendation between the LX2 and the Samsung NV10. They are both to be available on Sep 2006. I am trying to determine which one to buy. Please help.

Thanks you in advanced!

3:31 pm - Saturday, August 5, 2006

#59 nick in japan

Gary, Zymonk makes an interesting point about picture degradation with the LX-1, in reguards to the settings. The question I have is this, do you remenber any SPECIFIC data about said degradation in any reviews?
The Japanese manual eludes to "slight" difference between selecting the close focus over normal. I never saw a distinguisable difference, so always leave it on the close-focus setting for all normal shooting.
It will be interesting if the LX-2 has the same choice for shooters, and exactly what the degradation amounts to, especially for folks that want to do some big images, and need the best possible image.
Thanks!

5:02 am - Sunday, August 6, 2006

#60 simon in beijing

I'm looking forward to get the DMC-LX2. I know it will be launched in US on the 30th of September but I have the opportunity to go to Tokyo by the end of August and I was wondering if the stuff could be allready available there. Does anyone know something about that ?

12:22 am - Wednesday, August 9, 2006

#61 nick in japan

Simon, this is what I know, I put my LX-2 on order a couple weeks ago, the manager of the shop I deal with said that because the camera is new, he cannot discount it until September. I expect that the LX-2 will be on sale here the end of August or begining of September. When I get a more exact date I will post it. After they hit the stores my order will go in, and, a discount will be available, funny how that works!
I got my first LX-1 way before it was available in America, I suppose the same shipping situation may exist, but remember, Leica had a part, alot of us think, in the lack of availability, maybe due to the re-routing to Leica to make the D-Lux_2, they may end up doing the same with this new model, I don;t think anyone really knows now. A friend in Canada tried to get one, the camera shop there in Ladner couldn't even order one.
LX-1 Black bodies seemed to sell out, silver models are available here, but no black ones in stock locally.

5:24 am - Wednesday, August 9, 2006

#62 nick in japan

Simon, an update.... Got a call a few minutes ago, LX-2 is supposed to be in shops for sale here in Iwakuni on August 25th.

8:09 am - Wednesday, August 9, 2006

#63 simon in beijing

Thanks nick for your reply. That's great news, especially because I should be in Tokyo until the 26th. So if it is available in Iwakuni, I hope it will be in Tokyo as well. Would you recommand a good adress to get it for sure in Tokyo ? For the reccord, the LX-1 Silver is for sale at RMB 3400 in Beijing (USD 425). By the way, what is the target price in Japan for the LX-2 ?

10:46 am - Wednesday, August 9, 2006

#64 nick in japan

Sorry Simon, last time I was in Tokyo was on my way to Vietnam in '66, I'm about an hour south of Hiroshima. I'll check on the listed price tomorrow for you. I don't know how close your ties are with japan, but the prices here are jacked up bigtime, most Japanese just pay list price, I don't, when they can discount stuff 15% and still make a big profit, it's time to dicker!
There are very famous camera stores in Tokyo that are well know for new and used stuff, at good prices, volume selling, you should be able to ask while there, and get good results, probably beating what I can get it for here !
Good luck,lottsa folks are anxious to hear what your impressions of the camera are, especially in the noise areas!

12:09 pm - Wednesday, August 9, 2006

#65 Cargo

New slogans:

"If it's Panny, it's noisy!"

"Panasonic, for noise demonic!"

:)

6:01 pm - Wednesday, August 9, 2006

#66 AA

Here ya go, mate:

http://tinyurl.com/gv5kl

It says it is expected on AUGUST 25.

But, it's also going to be $100 more expensive than it will be in the U.S. If that's worth it to you, then by all means get it there - I also do not know if the CD that comes with it will have English versions of the software (if there are going to be any). Why not wait another month for it to come out in the U.S.? By then we will have had Japanese reviews and reports and decide if we really want it.

http://panasonic.jp/dc/lx2/index.html

I've had the LX1 since November of last year - and I've loved every minute of it. Of course, there are certain snags, but in the end, the photos look fairly decent, I never expected much more than what it is, so I've actually really enjoyed it. I also do not mind shoving it in the backpocket/frontpocket of my jeans (the jeans feels a little tighter, is all), and I still do that. I have a little shoulder case for it that can carry the charger, a spare battery and an extra memory card (I use two 1 Gigs, that's enough for me).
I love framing with the 16:9. - I don't shoot anything else, and I think I am better at composing with the wider shots than the normal 4:3 or 3:2 for some reason - I really like to push the framing to the edges with the wide angle and am getting some nice results.
I also don't worry about the noise - I just don't shoot at the high ISO, and generally use a tripod for extended exposures - and now that I know its tendencies, I also know not to go past 8 seconds for anything and the results are good, actually! I also like my shots to be very contrasty and shadowy, so I close down a lot more even in daylight shots, and I enjoy the way the results look - my friends and colleagues say that some of them are dark, but I never photograph people, so I don't give a #### what they say, know wot I mean? Even with some night shots without the tripod, if I know I am going to shoot street-lamp/store-lit scenes, I push the flash with the Manual settings and I can still get decent, moody night shots. Try it.

I am definitely going to but the new one - if not just for the 16:9 LCD, definitely for the bigger chip and the new engine. I know I can get very nice results.

7:23 pm - Wednesday, August 9, 2006

#67 nick in japan

Simon, AA makes a few good points you should think about, you will not get the English manual too, of course the LX-1 manual was written, probably as the LX-2 manual, so figuring some stuff out will be easy, a Japanese translator will be needed for the rest. You may be able to reduce that $100 difference by dickering, and, also ask for "No Tax ?", that is currently 5%( expected to rise to 10-15% within a couple years)
I use my LX-1, daily, image 3554 yesterday, still loving it!
The new engine processing will be the key factor in deciding the evolution of this little beauty! (IMHO)

11:18 pm - Wednesday, August 9, 2006

#68 simon in beijing

I cannot wait the launch in the US because actually I live in China, and up to what I heard, the LX2 won’t be available here before December. For the manuals in Japanese, it is not a problem because I never though these were really useful. I also own the DMC-LC1 (a real piece of art this one, I just love it) and I never opened any manual, the design & conception of the menus being so natural that how to use each function becomes obvious. Then for the CD, I never used these neither, just take the photos out and use Photoshop which is always better than any software given buy the camera brands. Thanks AA for your the websites, I definitely will try to book it to make sure I will have one on the 25th !

12:56 am - Friday, August 11, 2006

#69 simon in beijing

I just found a Japanese LX2 release on http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/cda/review/2006/08/01/4325.html quite well done with all ISO values. What do you guys think about it, especially those who already use LX1? I find LX2 looks noisy but only from ISO 800. Pretty good no ?

1:25 am - Friday, August 11, 2006

#70 nick in japan

The IS allows shooting at about 3 stops slower, the proof will be the reviews from users/testers. Like any new camera, we should all go slowly until enough info will give us an assurance of what it do for our individual needs, and, wants. Personally, ASA of 400 is enough for me, an average shooter. Like film cameras, did you buy alot of ASA 800 or above film? I didn't think so..me either!

5:01 am - Friday, August 11, 2006

#71 TS

Good point Nick!

I never bought film with an ASA above 100, and I have never used a setting above 100 on my digital cameras. And, I never shoot JPEG.

So, we'll see what the 100 RAW looks like with the the LX2. I am hopeful.

4:42 pm - Friday, August 11, 2006

#72 nick in japan

TS, there are times that you might want to explore a couple ASA changes! There are times when the finer picture that we want with ASA 80/100, will not be able to achieved due to the lack of light, and, it CAN be gotten with a higher ASA setting. I know exactly how you feel, I think we are all reluctant to jack up the ASA, but, IMHO, it's a trade off, that boost in speed can make a big difference in the blur factor which is a trade off for a bit more grain/noise. I usually shoot my 10/20D, and D70 at ASA 200, going to 100 on the Canons when I'm absolutely sure it is bright enough to maintain my speed objective.
When I shoot film, rarely now, I will usually go for ASA 400, the quality of films nowadays is so advanced that 400 is like the old 100 films, progress in sensor/processing engines will increase quality too, I sometimes go to 100 with the LX-1 with good results( Light is the key)

11:09 pm - Friday, August 11, 2006

#73 TS

Well Nick, I guess I am set in my ways. In the old days, any high ASA film or transparency didn't have the quality. I always shot Kodachrome 25 or later Velvia 50. I guess B&W film ran higher. PlusX I think was 125, and TriX was probably double that.

Using slow film meant buying bigger glass, more tripod use, panning during action sequences, or using a flash. But, with much better results than higher ASA. Nowadays, if you want special effects or grain you can add it in Photoshop, but removing noise is more difficult. So, I always prefer to have the cleanest, highest definition original I can get, and that means low ASA. And it is even more important today with digital cameras. To me, film grain has much nicer qualities than digital noise.

I like the concept of the LX2, with the nice lens, and small form factor, but I worry about the noise. We'll soon see if 100 RAW is good enough for my taste.

4:03 pm - Saturday, August 12, 2006

#74 zymonk

ISO 80 was the lowest with the LX1 and from what I've read, the lowest the LX2 will go is 100. I wonder why? Surly lower is less noisy in the appropriate light.

7:16 pm - Saturday, August 12, 2006

#75 TS

No, a lower ISO produces less noise in every situation.

Compare image samples from any digital camera. As one example, here's a look at night shots with the LX1, which should be a perfect candidate for a higher ISO setting:
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/panasonic/dmc_lx1-review/index.shtml

11:08 pm - Saturday, August 12, 2006

#76 nick in japan

I think Gary may add something here with the ASA issue, my previous comments about films with higher ASAs was for general/ family shooting. Finer granied 120/220 medium format as well as minature film ( 35mm) was always no higher than ASA 160. I have many frozen rolls of Velvia 50, and some pro 160 Kodak left over,that was always for serious stuff, for general photography I loved the Agfa and Fuji ASA 400, even 800 sometimes, still great for 8x12 prints.

1:01 am - Sunday, August 13, 2006

#77 JJ

Any news on the release date and availability at online stores? Finally settled at this camera as my first digital camera. Still can't believe I resisted the temptation for all these years, so I hope this camera won't dissapoint. Portability was the main reason for not going for a digital SLR.

Still keeping my film SLR ready for really special moments.

7:01 am - Thursday, August 17, 2006

#78 nick in japan

JJ, alot of folks are awaiting test/evaluation of this new model. It is smaller than a dslr, but not as small as many pocketable cameras out there. I don't feel comfortable with it in a shirt pocket, but many do and I even read somewhere that someone actually got it into their pant's pocket, guess it's a generation thing, I have trouble getting myself into my jeans.
The lens protrusion I consider necessary for the quality, versatility of the lens,a nice piece of work!
Being the second generation, this new model will be a step up, we hope, especially with noise.
I'm getting one too, I have that much faith!

7:23 am - Thursday, August 17, 2006

#79 JJ

Nick, thanks for constructive and timely reply as usual (...been following LX1 and LX2 threads). As long as the size is sacrificed for a quality lense, I don't care. After all usually only small change goes into the pocket, notes go into a nice wallet, so no problem carrying it in a pouch. Somehow, from all the posts here and elsewhere I was made to believe that noise is not an issue if properly post-processed and given the high quality of images, they can bear considerably more post-processing than those coming out of many other p/s cameras.

9:26 am - Thursday, August 17, 2006

#80 nick in japan

JJ, I have found that noise is the one thing that is most upsetting with the LX-1. I find it creeeping in, in the sky mostly, no problem with close-ups. I shoot only JPEG, and use Photoshop to clean it up, but , it takes time.
The "Wow" factor is real, 16x9 with the higher pixel count is something. Leica thought enough to risk their reputation by re-badging it with a Leica Logo.
I wish you good shooting, lottsa folks have mixed emotions about it, but after using it, seem to usually adore it as something special.
Got a typhoon bearing down on us, probably won't be shooting tomorrow.
Thanks for your kind words!
Semper Fi!

9:50 am - Thursday, August 17, 2006

#81 James Jesudason

Simon's posting of the Japanese review of the LX2 provides a very promising picture of the noise issue. The images are very small but from what I can tell, there is little noise even at 3200 ISO. Hope the review keeps its promise, and I'll be out looking for this camera.
James

6:34 pm - Saturday, August 19, 2006

#82 Marcosan

1) Noise will be the main issue...we'll see. 3200 I'm extremely skeptical about.

2) For ME, Jpeg is what it's all about. Even if it takes excellent photos after much pre-processing, if it doesn't take good jpeg photos out of the camera, it's not the camera for me.

3) As for size, if the camera turns out to be noticeably superior to the LX1, it will absolutely become THE belt pouch camera, and I'm sure that tons of folks will invent ways to make it easier and more convenient to carry. I don't want that bulge in my pants pocket (way too big for shirt) no matter how "comfortable" people say it is. I don't my female friends to confuse it with the other bulge and think I'm deformed.

So where's the link to Simon's pre-assessment, and would I be mistaken to assume you're referring to dpreview's Simon Joinson???

I hate getting my hope up on these cameras. If not this camera, believe it or not, I'll probably wait for a Fuji F30 with OIS or an improved Sony T30 with manual white balance, or Panny FX__ with a better sensor. I will NOTNOTNOT buy a digicam without OIS.

End of rant...out of breath.

Hi Nick. :)

7:13 pm - Saturday, August 19, 2006

#83 nick in japan

Hi Marcosan! ASA 3200 is a sensitivity that, IMHO, shouldn't even be considered, even in mid-range DSLRs, grain is there (Noise). The wizards at Nikon got control of it with the D2h, but, even in the world of film cameras, ASA is an area most people dont go to. The LX-2 will be a hit IF noise is very low at ASA 400. I go there with the Canon 10/20D, and Nikon D70, but even with these cameras, I prefer not to!
Very cloudy yesterday before the rain, so I shot my daily quota at 400 (20D/Bigma) Nice, rich colors, but obvious noiser when enlarged, I like to shoot at ASA 200 for good results But we are talking here about a much smaller sensor and expectations have got to be realistic! Until everyone goes to Nikon school and see what they did with the D2h COMOS sensor, then adapt a smaller version to our point and shoots, mathematically, we gonna get mo noise!!!
Nikon tweaked their CMOS type D2H sensor to even result in web-sites that tout images shot ONLY at ASA3200.
I think we are at an interim point in compact digital, patiently waiting while the engine processors trials with these weanie CCD sensors go on, and, on, and watching the refusal to market a weanie CMOS that could, maybe, solve all out problems

10:41 pm - Saturday, August 19, 2006

#84 Marcosan

Couldn't agree with ya more, Nick, but for me, I have to qualify a bit. If the LX2 doesn't GOOD! jpegs at 400, that'll be the ticket for me.
I'm a relative newbie and don't wanna spend my life pp'ing.

Yes, at this point, a larger sensor would do the trick, but that would compromise the size of the box. If the pocket digicam makers would STOP the megapixel race and concentrate on better sensors and less obtrusive noise reduction (kudos, Fuji), that would go a long way toward better IQ. Like I said, if Fuji had OIS, I grab one in a heartbeat.

Also, the user interfaces need to be improved if the manufacturers want to keep a chunk of the P & S'ers like me. The LX2 will hopefully do good ISO 400 and keep me interested enough to master it over time. The reviews will tell.

ISO 3200...what a freakin' joke for a pocket cam! But the dummy consumers fall for it because they don't know the math, physics, photographic optics, sensors, etc. They only know that bigger numbers are usually better...phhhht!

11:07 pm - Saturday, August 19, 2006

#85 nick in japan

Gotta agree, Marcosan, the 3200 ASA is something to reach for, so we can expand our techniques, for some really interesting shots, but the makers have got to learn to walk , before they run, so to speak! And, as you elude to, those numbers suck in folks that want the present day pocket camera to do everything!
Give us sharp , sharp, noiseless, 28-150mm IS compact cameras , up to ASA 400, and we can spend our time complaining about other things!

1:43 am - Sunday, August 20, 2006

#86 Marcosan

That would do it for me.
Is that too much to ask for?

oh yeah...intuitive interface and quick performance too.

Simple :)

2:49 am - Sunday, August 20, 2006

#87 Li

I wish the reviewers had a list of features that can be considered as essential in present cameras and then rate the cameras accordingly. In that case the LX1 would score highly because it has EVERYTHING except the noise performance. By the way, I haven't bothered with the noise in LX1 and always shoot in iso 80 - never ventured into situations that need higher iso.

On the ohter hand, cameras like fuji f30 would get a lower rating if done against the list - no OIS, no 28 mm, no 16x9, no compact body (in spite of using a smaller sensor) .. LX2's iso 3200 pictures looks very promising and very good (if you step back a little) - though I'm sure I'll never use it. Hope this model satisfies all the critics and gets it the credit that it deserves.

8:20 am - Sunday, August 20, 2006

#88 Marcosan

Joke: "Hey, did ya hear the one about the LX2's 3200 ISO?"

Can you provide a link to those "very promising" and "very good" 3200 ISO pics????

If I crop/blow them up, I'd bet that Monet will suddenly appear on my screen, right? :)

8:47 am - Sunday, August 20, 2006

#89 TS

Li makes a good point. What other cameras compete in this category?

Canon has the SD700IS, but no RAW, only 6 MP, small lens, expensive, but it does have an optical viewfinder. Ricoh GR-D has a fixed 28mm lens, takes 14 seconds to write a RAW file, no OIS, and costs a lot more.

Are there any other competing P&S cameras that shoot RAW and have OIS? I don't care about high ISO performance, because I only shoot at the lowest setting.

6:17 pm - Sunday, August 20, 2006

#90 kirk

The Canon S70 is 2 years old, but it's a 7MP pocket camera that shoots RAW. It does not have an Image Stabilizer. The newer S80 does not have RAW.

7:07 pm - Sunday, August 20, 2006

#91 Beeman

Its like watching a race. Cant wait till its over and we can see some results. This could be the first digital camera for me. Still with the dinosaurs - F2 is a great camera.

9:32 pm - Sunday, August 20, 2006

#92 Li

I just followed the link in post 69 and there is a LX2 snap of a teddy bear taken at iso 3200. The text is all in japanese but I downloaded the picture and looked at the properties to make sure its taken from an LX2 at 3200. As I said, its very good and very promising - unless the pictures are fakes ..

11:19 pm - Sunday, August 20, 2006

#93 Marcosan

I do not think that that single pic is representative of 3200 ISO. More samples are necessary to make judgements. Time will tell, but not now...

2:16 am - Monday, August 21, 2006

#94 nick in japan

There are MANY variables here Marcosan, the camera has settings that you can use to tweak noise, and other factors. Until a diagnosis with those user adjustments is made, we just don't know , as you imply, but that site seems to show a realistic graduation of noise from ASA 100-3200,and , I must say, the little guy looks like it will be very popular!

2:52 am - Monday, August 21, 2006

#95 Marcosan

Like I said, all I'm looking for is a solid 400 ISO jpeg...not much to ask for, I think. Fingers crossed....

3:48 am - Monday, August 21, 2006

#96 Li

The LX2 announcements does mention iso 3200 in high sensitivity mode. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0607/06071904panasoniclx2.asp

I think this means it can't be selected manually but in one of the scene modes. In any case it looks like Panasonic has done some homework regarding the noise issue.

And yes, you can add Raw to the feature list for the reviewers. And widescreen movie ..

7:45 am - Monday, August 21, 2006

#97 nick in japan

Thanks Li! So I go to dpreview, read it and get a warm, fuzzy feeling, until the very last spec, yep! It's like the folks at Panasonic, and dpreview, cant use a rule, just kinda ruins the mood when they keep insisting the little gem is about 1" thick! Again, I'll remind them, that alot of folks don't appreciate deliberate mis-representation of a product. I wish a reviewer would CORRECT the lie, dpreview gets a big BOO also!
I know Mark will do us all right!!!

8:43 am - Monday, August 21, 2006

#98 GARY POGODA

I think we all need a reality check here. Go back to the LX1 comment
thread (the one at the top of the Most Comments list), and remember
the excitement that the camera generated, only to let us all down with
a CCD so noisy it was laughable.

And what makes you think that a 10 megapixel CCD will be less noisy
than an 8 megapixel CCD of the same size. It will be more noisy.

As for RAW, the LX1's RAW was too slow to be usable. Sure, the LX2
will have a faster engine, but it had better be a lot faster with the 25%
larger image to process compared to the LX1.

If you learned anything from the LX1, don't be fooled again (or words
to that effect). :)

P.S. I hope I'm wrong.

10:22 am - Monday, August 21, 2006

#99 nick in japan

IMHO the folks that were let down are the folks that never even held the camera in their hands, and even refused my generous offer to use my personal camera.
Trying to remember all the threads from folks that regretted getting the camera, trying to rationalize why some people are determined to downgrade, and belittle the camera and it's owners... maybe it's late and the alcohol is talking!
I can't remember anyone ever coming close to calling it a perfect camera, but I can remember lottsa folks happy with it, and very anxious to, maybe, own an upgrade, I don't consider that foolish!

12:12 pm - Monday, August 21, 2006

#100 GARY POGODA

But if you go back and read all 773 posts :), you will see the dozens
of people that were initially interested, and dropped out after learning
of the LX1's poor noise performance.

5:28 pm - Monday, August 21, 2006