Sharp 10 Megapixel Sensor Unveiled

#1 Oscar van der Velde

"Expect to see even more noise and chromatic aberrations in the next wave of digital cameras…" - Just what we are waiting for!

4:54 pm - Thursday, November 3, 2005

#2 DogBreath

“Expect to see even more noise and chromatic aberrations in the next wave of digital cameras…”

Huh? This makes no sense whatsover and is highly counter-intuitive. Put a little context around this statment.

5:27 pm - Friday, November 4, 2005

#3 Tony Greefield

Do you mean that marketing is more important than quality? Ah, knock me down its such a surprise!

5:47 pm - Friday, November 4, 2005

#4 DogBreath

Just to clarify:
"Sharp Japan have announced a new 10 megapixel, 1/1.7 inch CCD sensor, which crams in 3766 horizontal and 2801 vertical pixels. "
=======
That is a 25x43 millimeter sensor, and larger than the one in a Canon 1DS MkII. Not sure where the perjorative of "crams" is applicable.

6:07 pm - Friday, November 4, 2005

#5 GARY POGODA

Your dimensions for a 1/1.7" CCD aren't even in the ballpark.

A 1/1.7" CCD is approximately 40 square millimeters in area, which
is nowhere near the 1000 square millimeters you have claimed.

Hence the applicability of the "cram" terminology.

7:22 pm - Friday, November 4, 2005

#6 DogBreath

I'm betting there is a cultural problem (probably mine) here in deciphering the meaning of "1/1/7"". I took that to mean 1 inch by 1.7 inch. What is it really?

8:19 pm - Friday, November 4, 2005

#7 GARY POGODA

It is 1" divided by 1.7, which is "representative" of the CCD's diagonal
measurement, but it is not its "actual" diagonal measurement, and the
number cannot be used in any formal calculations.

Hope that helps. And don't feel bad. This happens all the time.

8:38 pm - Friday, November 4, 2005

#8 DogBreath

OK, got it..., sorta??? Yeah, its crammed.

My "other" camera is a Canon Powershot Pro1. Its chip is tiny, but brings 8MP. It is noisy at anything over ASA 50.

8:51 pm - Friday, November 4, 2005

#9 Rob

Just what we needed... One more mediocrity from a mediocre company who wants to get ahead in the market by playing the infamous "the more pixels the better" game!

4:24 am - Saturday, November 5, 2005

#10 GARY POGODA

To be fair, this sensor is really not all that bad.

Assuming you were not previously displeased with 8 megapixels on
a 1/1.8" CCD (big assumption, I know), 10 megapixels on this 1/1.7"
CCD should yield about the same pixel size. So at least give Sharp
credit for first enlarging the CCD before cramming in the extra pixels.
And that is not even taking into consideration the fact that this next
generation CCD probably uses improved technology for lower noise.

9:02 pm - Saturday, November 5, 2005

#11 DogBreath

I'm not "displeased" with my Pro1, but rather looking for more/better/cleaner pixels in my next take-it-everywhere camera. The Sony DSC R1 has a lot going for it, mainlyl a chip that is ~5.3 times bigger than the Pro1. Except for its clumsy (~20mb non-compressed plus 3.6mb for a JPEG = HUGE FILE) handling of raw files I might have an order in as I write. What are they thinking of????

11:33 pm - Saturday, November 5, 2005

#12 GARY POGODA

The Pro1 is in a different league with its 2/3" CCD (i.e., 1/1.5").

For comparison, I like to use 5.2 total megapixels on a 1/1.8" CCD as
the ideal combination of resolution versus noise. For the Pro1, with a
52% larger area CCD, that would translate to 7.9 total megapixels, so
the Pro1's 8.3 total megapixels is pretty close to the ideal combination.

If the Pro1 is in a different league, the R1 is on a different planet, with
it APS-C CMOS image sensor, which is 8x larger in area than a 1/1.8"
CCD, and 5x larger than the Pro1's 2/3" CCD, not to mention the fact
that CMOS technology offers a number of other benefits for improved
dynamic range and noise characteristics.

The R1 has a lot going for it. If the only thing bothering you is its large
RAW file size, I would take a second look. With 10 megapixel images,
you have to expect a large file size. Even the Nikon D200, which is a
more expensive camera, has a 21MB RAW+JPEG file size. So what's
a couple extra megapixels?

7:03 pm - Sunday, November 6, 2005

#13 DogBreath

Typical raw file size on my 10D is ~6mb, on the Pro1, 7.5mb. I do not expect 24mb from a 10mp chip. This is bad design. Like on my 10D, I like to option the elimination the huge JPG file which has no value for me. Maybe there will be a "Pro 2" soon.

9:37 pm - Sunday, November 6, 2005

#14 GARY POGODA

Admittedly, the option to drop the JPEG would have been nice. Still,
the R1 has a lot going for it. As a 10D user, I'm sure you appreciate
the value of an APS CMOS sensor.

Waiting for a Pro2 is also a good choice. Let's just hope they do not
upgrade it to this new Sharp sensor.

10:37 pm - Sunday, November 6, 2005

#15 DogBreath

I don't think there is much chance Canon would go in the direction of the Sharp chip for a "Pro2". My suspicion is that they already took enough gas because of its noisy Sony chip.

However, the Pro1 package is very nice because of its tidy size. That is the reason I chose it over the plethora of other cameras using the same Sony chip. Canon already has the Rebel that comes close to the Sony DSC R1 price point.

Glad I don't work at Canon and have to figure this out.

7:01 am - Monday, November 7, 2005

#16 GARY POGODA

There are several SLRs comparable to the R1 in performance/price,
but I did not think you wanted to go that route.

6:42 pm - Monday, November 7, 2005

#17 DogBreath

Price/performance, yes. Package, no. My current hardware still produces acceptable images, so I have the luxury of trolling the market and waiting for the "right" opportunity. Not all bad, and there is always the chance I'll hit the lotto next go round.

6:55 pm - Monday, November 7, 2005

#18 Chris

Thank you for telling us what 1/1.7" means. What a ludicrous mix of units the industry has adopted. Much better would be a simple 7.7mm x 5.7mm

3:43 pm - Friday, November 11, 2005

#19 GARY POGODA

Agreed. DPReview, which contains a plethora of camera specs for
just about every camera, now includes actual dimensions for many
of the standard CCD sizes. So just maybe, camera manufacturers
will get the message.

They also have an excellent discussion of sensor sizes.

http://www.dpreview.com/learn/?/Glossary/Camera_System/Sensor_Sizes_01.htm

7:08 pm - Friday, November 11, 2005